Ive stated this before but to me everything is about finding balance.
In our early history we subjugated and ethnically cleansed cultures that were different from a more dominant culture.
while we in our higher thinking have developed a morality that has overrode this impulse,It is in our nature to compete for resources.
The idea that we are all americans is strengthed by the things we hold in common.
from the Utilitariam prspective it is obvious we cant have police showing up at a stand off speaking Korean, or a 911 operator that only speaks spanish.
while It is important to be accomodating to other cultures and respect their individualism, they have chosen to become Americans,learning certain aspects of American society should be encouraged.
Most European immigrants in the 1800s understood this and made a more focused effort to adopt an American Identity.(changing sur names,learning english)
While some of the impetus was out of fear of reprisal from fearful native
americans, the ultimate effect was furthuring a national identity IMO.
Let's call this discussion what it is, two people who actually don't know jack about the subject pretending they have a solid grasp on this experience of immigrants 150 years ago. I think we can speak intelligently about now... But pretending to intelligently compare it to 1880 without some sort of documented evidence besides our general impression of a time that was before our grandparents were born (or maybe even before they were even in this country) is how shall I say this... it's horse manure.
You mention Changing names. There are plenty of people who are named Jose who go by Joe or even Qui who go by Carl. I taught at Hunter College, and there is a huge 1st generation immigrant population there (roughly 20% of the student body is born outside of the US)... plenty of kids there go by American versions of their names, or just American style names they have chosen for themselves. And this is in New York where it is more acceptable to have a foreign name than anywhere in the country.
Last edited by flips333; 11-11-2012 at 02:12 PM.
Originally Posted by MrPoon
Obviously I am speaking from a position of ignorance on the behaviours of immigrants of the 1800s.
Im making asumptions based on the assimilation of most of those Cultures into an American Identity over the course of time.
Ive only visited NY a few times, but I have friends and no one has ever mentioned a problem with ethnic incursion based on a language barrier.(in recent years) I could be wrong.
Right now in So Cal and in Texas as the other poster indicated, there are large communities with only spanish speakers and they have been able to insulate themselves from the outside world far more easily then in the past.
Ive been in Markets,auto shops,Businesses of every stripe that are not even in a obviously hispanic neighborhood and no one speaks english. Thats a problem IMO.
We had this discussion a year or two ago.
Here is what I would do:
1. Offer an amnesty program for all illegal immigrants who have not committed felonies or any violent crime. This process would be much more streamlined than the typical naturalization process and would include taking classs in US history, the constitution, and citizenship. I would assign a case officer to handle no more than 20 of these cases at any time. I would set up this process to take no more than six months, with extensions granted on a case by case basis.
2. Get all participants in the amesty program registered and paying taxes legally.
3. Deport all felons and violent criminals.
4. Improve border security through improved reconnaisance, and better resourcing of border patrol.
I would also decriminalize marijuana nationally, thereby decreasing the demand for Mexican or other central american cartel weed. This would also impact local economies in Mexico, and decrease illicit traffic across the border. I think the impact of improving local licit economies would also reduce the demand for illegal immigrantion.
"I went to a restaurant that serves "breakfast at any time". So I ordered French Toast during the Renaissance."
additionally I would add a stricter guideline of law enforcement similar to escalting penalties when people are repeat offenders.
If you have been amnesticized even certain Misdemeanors can result in deportation.
Felonies automatically place your status in review.