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  1. #46
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    As for who we get back, I'm sure we could get a duo, or maybe even trio, of players consisting of major league ready talent, such as our Flores, and some very young players, like our Fulmer and Nimmo.

  2. #47
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    Dickey is one of the few reasons people even visit Citi Field these days....if the Wilpons can't see that, then they don't deserve to be here anymore. Which we already knew anyways.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beltrans Mole View Post
    Dickey is one of the few reasons people even visit Citi Field these days....if the Wilpons can't see that, then they don't deserve to be here anymore. Which we already knew anyways.
    That's really irrelevant when he pitches on a prospective 75 win ballclub next year that has no way to win anything of significance with him (regardless of how well he pitches)

    If the Wilpons plan on spending significant money in 2014 and going forward, then re-sign him.

    Otherwise deal him ASAP. (I know i sound like a broken record sorry )
    Last edited by metswon69; 11-12-2012 at 03:01 AM.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by MetsFanatic19 View Post
    By the time the Floreses and Wheelers and Harveys and Nimmos are developed, Dickey will be at the end of his career and, most likely, not as nearly dominant as he was in 2012.
    Flores, Wheeler and Harvey are probably 2 years away, tops, more likely sooner. (I've no idea how far away Nimmo is). Dickey can go on pitching like this for another 5 years, easy.

    When Flores and Wheeler are ready to join the party, you're going to want Robert Allen around.
    "Mr. Martin Tanner, Baritone, of Dayton, Ohio made his Town Hall debut last night. He came well prepared, but unfortunately his presentation was not up to contemporary professional standards. His voice lacks the range of tonal color necessary to make it consistently interesting. Full time consideration of another endeavor might be in order."

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beltrans Mole View Post
    Dickey is one of the few reasons people even visit Citi Field these days....if the Wilpons can't see that, then they don't deserve to be here anymore. Which we already knew anyways.
    More people would visit if they put a winning ball club on the field.
    The problem with that is, it will take time for some of these contracts to expire.


    ďNinety percent Iíll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent Iíll probably waste.Ē
    - Tug McGraw, on his plans for his $75,000 salary

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanofclendennon View Post
    Flores, Wheeler and Harvey are probably 2 years away, tops, more likely sooner. (I've no idea how far away Nimmo is). Dickey can go on pitching like this for another 5 years, easy.

    When Flores and Wheeler are ready to join the party, you're going to want Robert Allen around.
    Wheeler will be up some time this year, barring an injury.


    ďNinety percent Iíll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent Iíll probably waste.Ē
    - Tug McGraw, on his plans for his $75,000 salary

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by clayamtion View Post
    More people would visit if they put a winning ball club on the field.
    The problem with that is, it will take time for some of these contracts to expire.

    Why should fielding a $140M team in NY be a problem? or even a $120M team? payroll is under $100M and they're still pleading poverty? and that's not the problem? Ok. Any large market club should not be strangled to death for years by two contracts, especially when they have already cut payroll by a historic amount.

    It's not the contracts that are the problem, it's the lack of talent and complete lack of money being put into the team, two deals expiring will not fix that, and do you seriously think they've got payroll down this far, just to start a spending binge?

    Why do people persist in believing this garbage about Bay and JS preventing a NY team, from improving itself? The Mets SHOULD be able to write off they $40M or sothey're owed, and still put a $100M on the field, the JS and Jason Bay thing is a fig leaf, and that fig leaf is about to blow away.

    Fast forward 12 months and the Mets will be making excuses about signing significant FA's yet again. Book it.
    Last edited by Marty Mcfly; 11-12-2012 at 09:35 AM.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marty Mcfly View Post
    Why should fielding a $140M team in NY be a problem? or even a $120M team? payroll is under $100M and they're still pleading poverty? and that's not the problem? Ok. Any large market club should not be strangled to death for years by two contracts, especially when they have already cut payroll by a historic amount.

    It's not the contracts that are the problem, it's the lack of talent and complete lack of money being put into the team, two deals expiring will not fix that, and do you seriously think they've got payroll down this far, just to start a spending binge?

    Why do people persist in believing this garbage about Bay and JS preventing a NY team, from improving itself? The Mets SHOULD be able to write off they $40M or sothey're owed, and still put a $100M on the field, the JS and Jason Bay thing is a fig leaf, and that fig leaf is about to blow away.

    Fast forward 12 months and the Mets will be making excuses about signing significant FA's yet again. Book it.
    Ah, the George Allen philosophy of building a baseball team.
    This FO believes in building from within and acquire young talent. And not on aging overpriced Free Agents. We just let go one of the last remanence of that philosophy.

    It's a young man's game.


    ďNinety percent Iíll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent Iíll probably waste.Ē
    - Tug McGraw, on his plans for his $75,000 salary

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by clayamtion View Post
    Ah, the George Allen philosophy of building a baseball team.
    This FO believes in building from within and acquire young talent. And not on aging overpriced Free Agents. We just let go one of the last remanence of that philosophy.

    It's a young man's game.

    Ah, the heads in the sand philosophy 'We don't need to spend, we can win with prospects'.

    This FO doesn't believe in anything, it is in place to cut payroll and to do as it's told by Fred Wilpon, so he can keep his claws on the team, the baseball face of the Mets is a charade, the only game in town is keeping the team. Only the naive can't see this.

    If it's interested in acquiring young talent, why did it trade for a 34 year old to man center field?

    If it's interested in young talent, why is it considering throwing away a 25 year old lefty who is locked up for years on the cheap?

    All this FO is interested in is turning out a non-disastrous team every year possible, to protect revenue as best it can whilst spending as little as it can get away with.

    But by all means, you keep on believing Sandy's bs.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marty Mcfly View Post
    Ah, the heads in the sand philosophy 'We don't need to spend, we can win with prospects'.

    This FO doesn't believe in anything, it is in place to cut payroll and to do as it's told by Fred Wilpon, so he can keep his claws on the team, the baseball face of the Mets is a charade, the only game in town is keeping the team. Only the naive can't see this.

    If it's interested in acquiring young talent, why did it trade for a 34 year old to man center field?

    If it's interested in young talent, why is it considering throwing away a 25 year old lefty who is locked up for years on the cheap?

    All this FO is interested in is turning out a non-disastrous team every year possible, to protect revenue as best it can whilst spending as little as it can get away with.

    But by all means, you keep on believing Sandy's bs.
    As I stated countless times, the main player in the trade was Rameriz, and not Torres. And they traded for both not for one player. The FO felt spending 5.3 million was better suited on the both of them, then spending it on Pagan and a rookie reliever.

    They were wrong. But in the end it was a move for the short term, that would have not made an impact the past season.


    ďNinety percent Iíll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent Iíll probably waste.Ē
    - Tug McGraw, on his plans for his $75,000 salary

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by clayamtion View Post
    As I stated countless times, the main player in the trade was Rameriz, and not Torres. And they traded for both not for one player. The FO felt spending 5.3 million was better suited on the both of them, then spending it on Pagan and a rookie reliever.

    They were wrong. But in the end it was a move for the short term, that would have not made an impact the past season.

    I don't care what you stated, or who was the main player and who wasn't it makes no difference the trade was a massive flop.

    The gambled on Torres being able to play CF every day, and he could not. No GM worth his salt throws away his CF'er for a reliever in the first place, so the premise was flawed to begin with, as only a complete moron would have overlooked Torres garbage career. They thought they could get a cheapie 2 for 1, that's why the deal was made.

    WRONG.

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    That's really irrelevant when he pitches on a prospective 75 win ballclub next year that has no way to win anything of significance with him (regardless of how well he pitches)

    If the Wilpons plan on spending significant money in 2014 and going forward, then re-sign him.

    Otherwise deal him ASAP. (I know i sound like a broken record sorry )
    So if you only win 75 games, you shouldn't resign any of your star players? Without Dickey and Wright on this team, we'd win 60 games, not 75. I'm not rooting for mediocrity, but it sends a bad message to then fanbase when you can't bring back the guys who help your team maintain some level of baseball dignity. It's not like Dickey is going to cost us the world...he's 37 years old. He's a leader on this team and he's a fan-favorite. If you let him walk, then what the hell is the point of signing anyone? Why not just let 21 year olds play for the major league squad and have a payroll of 18 million dollars?

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanofclendennon View Post
    Flores, Wheeler and Harvey are probably 2 years away, tops, more likely sooner. (I've no idea how far away Nimmo is). Dickey can go on pitching like this for another 5 years, easy.

    When Flores and Wheeler are ready to join the party, you're going to want Robert Allen around.
    Ok maybe for Wheeler so he could lead him a bit, but how would it impact Flores. If anyone would, I would be Wright.

    But again, how much of a difference could R.A make? It's not as if the Mets will be full of rookies with no veteran leader. We have Niese, who is going on his 5th year, Pelfrey, who has been in the league for 7, and whoever veteran 5th starter we sign (like a Chris Young).

    Do you think if R.A wasn't around, Harvey wouldn't have done as good? I don't really see how Dickey could help much with how to pitch, and where to pitch, etc... because he's the only knuckler in the league, let alone the Mets. He does bring a veteran presence and helps the young ones deal with the New York pressure and such, but isn't that what Terry and the coaches are for?

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beltrans Mole View Post
    So if you only win 75 games, you shouldn't resign any of your star players? Without Dickey and Wright on this team, we'd win 60 games, not 75. I'm not rooting for mediocrity, but it sends a bad message to then fanbase when you can't bring back the guys who help your team maintain some level of baseball dignity. It's not like Dickey is going to cost us the world...he's 37 years old. He's a leader on this team and he's a fan-favorite. If you let him walk, then what the hell is the point of signing anyone? Why not just let 21 year olds play for the major league squad and have a payroll of 18 million dollars?
    In a business situation the Mets are in right now, you kind of have to somewhat ignore what the fans want and do what's right. At this point, a 60 win team would help the Mets more than a 75 win team, brining in higher and better draft picks.

    Dickey isn't going to make another team unload their farm to us, but he could bring back a pair of very well rounded, young players, plus we'd be saving (around) 36 million dollars by not signing him.

    If we trade him, it just means that we're under rebuilding mode. It doesn't mean that you bring up every single young player, it just means we need to sacrifice a few years of sucking in return for future glory. Look at the Nationals and Rays. I know the Nats situation is harder to compare because they got 2 once-in-a-lifetime players, but still, both Tampa and D.C played for the future. They lost games and in return, they got top draft picks, traded some older talent, and built around them, and look where they are now.

    It's not about winning now, as crazy as that seems. We are in a ****** position and, unless the Wilpons suddenly come up with a boat load of money, or a team offers us their star player for a package around someone like Niese, or we get surprise years from role player such as Baxter and Gee, then this team will not win enough ballgames in order to contend, Robert Allen Dickey or not.

    That does not mean trade everybody who has value and play with an average age of 23, but trwe can afford to trade Dickey and maybe even Wirght (which I wouldn't do but that's another story). It's all about where the Mets are right now, and right now, we need to play for the future, not the present.

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beltrans Mole View Post
    So if you only win 75 games, you shouldn't resign any of your star players? Without Dickey and Wright on this team, we'd win 60 games, not 75. I'm not rooting for mediocrity, but it sends a bad message to then fanbase when you can't bring back the guys who help your team maintain some level of baseball dignity. It's not like Dickey is going to cost us the world...he's 37 years old. He's a leader on this team and he's a fan-favorite. If you let him walk, then what the hell is the point of signing anyone? Why not just let 21 year olds play for the major league squad and have a payroll of 18 million dollars?
    What's the difference between a 75 win team and a 62-65 win team?

    I know i rather not see the false hope year in and year out from a team that inevitably accomplishes nothing. What's the point in that?

    We aren't talking about a borderline playoff team that's looking to get better this offseason, this is a team praying to stay afloat by picking up bottom of the barrel FAs.

    If that's the case they might as well win 60 games next year. We will get a top 2 or 3 pick that could help us tremendously down the line.

    Not to mention Dickey can provide us with quality specs that could help us rebuild this team sooner (much like Reyes would have provided if they had dealt him)

    This is not about 2013, this is about the moves that will help us in the future and giving this team a direction going forward.

    Look don't get me wrong, if the Wilpons were committed to spending money going forward i would be all for signing Dickey.

    The problem is the Wilpons have given us no indication they will spend past Wright and maybe Dickey.
    Last edited by metswon69; 11-12-2012 at 03:36 PM.

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