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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by clayamtion View Post
    Billy Beane was still playing baseball when Oakland won their championship in '89.

    They received 2 picks for losing Reyes.

    The Giants were 6th in the NL in runs scored and 5th in ERA.
    Very true, but the huge difference is that at that time Alderson was allowed to spend money and he was trading for veteran players that were pretty good. When the money stop coming in it was not so good anymore. Beane was the one that started winning again with the low payroll. Not trying to take away from what he did in Oakland, but at that time the A's did spend money.

  2. #47
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    Don't be fooled into thinking that they did this to spend money on the team.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toon88 View Post
    To Pelfrey the guy is a bum and now coming off a major injury. Its time to let him go another 1st round bust. The rest seems reasonable but I just remembered who our GM and owners are. Unless these guys are coming to the Mets for 3 cents on the dollar I don't see it. So look for Michael Suanders and Mark Reynolds type signings. You know guys not even hitting their weight.
    I disagree with you about Pelfrey. I think he took something from his poor performance in 2011 and was showing it before his injury last year. If he can consistently keep it down in the zone he has the stuff to be an effective #2 or 3 starter, like when he led the league in GIDPs. I am hoping that they non-tender him and then resign him for about $4 million.

    You should remember who our GM and owners are. They are the same ones that just freed up payroll by getting rid of a $21 million albatross with a pretty bold and creative move. I believe Alderson will use that found money wisely and sign quality players to fill needed holes. He won't throw it at high priced, risky signings or trades, but look for young, inexpensive talent to come in. Forget Mark Reynolds type players. Saunders, on the other hand, is a young (pre-arb) high OBP guy, with some pop, who doesn't strike out a ton. He was ranked the #30 prospect in all of baseball as recently as 2010. He would be far from my choice to sign, but I'm not sure why you disparage him.
    Former B'klyn Dodger fan. Mets Maniac since 1962.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by dunbummin View Post
    I get $81 million (actually $80.55) for the 10 players who are under contract or arb eligible. Santana-$25.5, Wright-$16, Dickey-$5, Bay-$16, Niese-$3.05, Francisco$6.5, Murphy-$3, Ike-$2.8, Thole-$1.2, and Parnell-$1.5. Murph, Ike, Thole and Parnell come from MLBTraderRumors Projected Arb Salaries. I'm not sure your 10 pre-arbs will all be on the team, but using your $5 million, it comes to $85.55 million.

    You estimated that they saved $3-6 million on Bay, but Cot's seems to put the number at $13 million. Even using your estimates, they would have $12-15 million to spend, but if Cot's is correct they could have $20-23 million, wchich wouldn't be bad at all.
    You are missing the buy-out of Santana, Sandy said that's on this year's payroll, so that's $5.5M added onto the $85.5M payroll making it $91M. Lets just assume we don't add Bay's buy-out because of the deferral. We have about $10M to spend on 5 players, or $15M if they trade Dickey.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sick Of It All View Post
    Very true, but the huge difference is that at that time Alderson was allowed to spend money and he was trading for veteran players that were pretty good. When the money stop coming in it was not so good anymore. Beane was the one that started winning again with the low payroll. Not trying to take away from what he did in Oakland, but at that time the A's did spend money.
    How many championships did Beane win again?

    Plus, Giambi, Chavez, Tejada, Hudson and Hernandez were all acquired while Alderson was GM. Plus Alderson Mentored Beane.


    ďNinety percent Iíll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent Iíll probably waste.Ē
    - Tug McGraw, on his plans for his $75,000 salary

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marty Mcfly View Post
    Don't be fooled into thinking that they did this to spend money on the team.
    They did what to spend money on the team.


    ďNinety percent Iíll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent Iíll probably waste.Ē
    - Tug McGraw, on his plans for his $75,000 salary

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by clayamtion View Post
    How many championships did Beane win again?

    Plus, Giambi, Chavez, Tejada, Hudson and Hernandez were all acquired while Alderson was GM. Plus Alderson Mentored Beane.
    The idea is to spend like a big market after rebuilding through the draft or acquiring quality specs.

    The apprehensiveness with most posters on this forum is whether or not the Wilpons are committed to doing that when this team eventually is able to compete again.

    Not to mention people are growing justifiably impatient with a team that hasn't won than 70+ games since 2008.

    I unlike some people here have confidence in Aldersons drafting ability and with the guys you mentioned he certainly knows talent when he sees it.

    The Wilpons don't give anyone any confidence and although Alderson gets a lot of justifiable crap for some of his bad moves, he is obviously limited in his approach with inept ownership that doesn't act like a big market team.

  8. #53
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    We understand its not about this year or maybe 2014 but they need to use these years to have productive young players in place when they can spend money again (if they ever can)

    Its a disconnect between the Wilpons and the Mets fan base.

    Nobody trusts them with what's gone on last year and this offseason

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna28 View Post
    You are missing the buy-out of Santana, Sandy said that's on this year's payroll, so that's $5.5M added onto the $85.5M payroll making it $91M. Lets just assume we don't add Bay's buy-out because of the deferral. We have about $10M to spend on 5 players, or $15M if they trade Dickey.
    Cot's shows Santana's buyout against the 2014 payroll, which I think, is the conventional way to consider it. Regardless, the amount they have to spend depends greatly upon how Bay's deferral is structured.

    You know, I'm an optimist, so I am hoping that Alderson is deliberately trying to lower our expectations so that we'll be happy with small moves if that's all he can do, but ecstatic if he can pull off one or two bigger deals.

    As in the past, I have emailed Sandy when I think I have a bright idea. During the 2010 and 2011 off seasons I got a few responses from him, but so far this year I haven't gotten anything. I hope that means he is working hard for us.
    Former B'klyn Dodger fan. Mets Maniac since 1962.

  10. #55
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    He himself said Santana's buy-out will count towards this year's payroll in 2013, not 2014. Cots is not 100% correct in every instance. Under normal circumstances it would be right, but not here.

  11. #56
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    Yeah, I recall him saying that, but I just neglected to include it in my estimates.
    Former B'klyn Dodger fan. Mets Maniac since 1962.

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by clayamtion View Post
    How many championships did Beane win again?

    Plus, Giambi, Chavez, Tejada, Hudson and Hernandez were all acquired while Alderson was GM. Plus Alderson Mentored Beane.
    None to date, but that should not take away from what he has done and am not taking away from what he did, but fact is that he won when he had money to spend. He did nothing in SD with a low budget either.

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sick Of It All View Post
    None to date, but that should not take away from what he has done and am not taking away from what he did, but fact is that he won when he had money to spend. He did nothing in SD with a low budget either.
    He was the president and not the GM in SD.


    ďNinety percent Iíll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent Iíll probably waste.Ē
    - Tug McGraw, on his plans for his $75,000 salary

  14. #59
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    Still a big part of the organization and had a big say on how things were being run.

  15. #60
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    http://www.baseballprospectus.com/ar...articleid=2762

    http://articles.latimes.com/1989-11-...ngeles-dodgers

    The average salary increased from $430,000 in 1988 to $488,000 in 1989, with the payroll of the Oakland Athletics, who won the American League pennant in '88, jumping more than $6 million, baseball's biggest increase.

    And considering they are coming off a World Series victory and faced with the task of re-signing free agents Rickey Henderson, Dave Parker, Storm Davis and Tony Phillips, among others, the A's, at $17.5 million, should soon chalk up another significant increase.
    Oakland had a top 5 payroll in 1989 and was consistently in the upper echelon of teams spending wise in that time, obviously comparing it to today's dollars and payrolls is different but when he had money to work with he was successful.

    There is still a winning formula out there, it's just a matter of whether these Wilpons ever get their **** straight to bankroll it.
    Last edited by metswon69; 11-12-2012 at 02:03 AM.

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