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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    You forgot to mention that he was hurt much/most of the time when he played for outdoor teams.

    Warner is nowhere near the most overrated QB of his era.
    thats a bunch of crap..

    He's played outside during 1 season in which he played in 9 outdoor games and had 6 td's/4 picks with a 86.9 QBR.

    He has a career 58 games outside and if you take out that 1 season? He has 69 TD's/65 picks..And his QBR even goes down a very tiny bit.

    Bolden/Fitz while in a dome will make any solid qb look very good.

  2. #77
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    Really? prove it.

    Injuries/events that plagued Warner.

    2002-2003 - Warner broke his finger
    2003-2004 - Broken hand
    2005-2006 - Groin Injury, then torn MCL
    2006-2008 - Cards tried to make something out of Leinhart (justifying the pick), blocking Warner for some time. Warner still played very well when given a chance, and eventually got his job back.
    2009-2010 - hip injury and post concussion issues, bounty put on Warner in playoffs.

    Please, try getting informed before you make statements that can't be sustained.
    Last edited by bagwell368; 11-14-2012 at 08:42 PM.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    Parillo says he thinks Brady is done in NE after his deal is done (2014 is the end).
    And that's coming from Mr. Sunshine too


    Honestly, I'm just going to sit back and enjoy Brady and not worry about it until it happens.

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    Really? prove it.

    Injuries/events that plagued Warner.

    2002-2003 - Warner broke his finger
    2003-2004 - Broken hand
    2005-2006 - Groin Injury, then torn MCL
    2006-2008 - Cards tried to make something out of Leinhart (justifying the pick), blocking Warner for some time. Warner still played very well when given a chance, and eventually got his job back.
    2009-2010 - hip injury and post concussion issues, bounty put on Warner in playoffs.

    Please, try getting informed before you make statements that can't be sustained.

    So even with these injuries he puts up hof numbers in the dome, yet...Once he's outside he cant? Hmmm, I dont buy into that.

    His splits CLEARLY suggests his injuries didn't affect him as much as you are leading on, If a guy really was affected...He wouldn't be be having MVP calliber seasons..

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    You said you wouldn't deal him. Stand behind what you write, or don't write it if you don't want people to respond in some way you don't like...

    So you spent 5x more time to write this, then what I took to write mine.... LOL. Chill.
    How am I not standing behind what I said? I wouldn't trade Brady at this point for Luck, if you need an explanation for my line of thinking here it is. At the moment Brady has great command of this offense, there's no guarantee Luck would come in and have the same success. You then proceeded to be captain obvious with your "Luck is more valuable than Brady even now, smell the coffee", malarkey. And who cares how long I spent responding? You seek out belittling everyone on here that you disagree with, so take your own advice and chill.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by B'sCeltsPatsSox View Post
    And that's coming from Mr. Sunshine too


    Honestly, I'm just going to sit back and enjoy Brady and not worry about it until it happens.
    Brady is great. He's in the elite 6 all time (going back to the 1930's) IMO. He's the best in his era. But all the other guys he sits with had careers that ended in retirement. He's netxt.

    Player : last great year : retirement : notes

    Graham : 37 : 37 (7 x Champ (took team to 10 Championship games in a row) 4 x #1 QBR)
    Montana : 33 : 38 (4 x Champ, 2 x #1 QBR, same record as Brady in SB and Championship games)
    Brady : 33, 37? (3x Champ, 2 x SB MVP, 2x #1 QBR)
    Starr: 34 : 37 (5x Champion, MVP of first two SB, 3 x #1 QBR)
    Baugh: 33 : 38 (2x Champ, 7 x All Pro, 4 x #1 QBR)
    Staubach: 37 : 37 (career started at age 27) (2 x Champ, 4 x #1 QBR)

    Brady this year (18%) is playing very near his career average (17% above) the league average QB, and well down from '07 (48%), '10 (30%), '11 (26%). '04, '05, '09 are other similar years to '12.

    I think we all accept that 2007 won't be repeated, but it also appears '10 and '11 may not be repeated as well.

    I don't know why people can't enjoy something just because they know it's going to end - and sooner rather than later.

    Obviously from an emotional point of view people don't want Brady to retire or be dealt. But intellectually not to deal Brady for Luck and a bum player or 3 to make the cap work plus a #1 and #3 and a #2 and a #4 in back to back years is just beyond comprehension. BB's job is not to win this year (unlikely but possible) at the expense of the future. His job is to maximize both.
    Last edited by bagwell368; 11-15-2012 at 09:38 AM.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bos_Sports4Life View Post
    So even with these injuries he puts up hof numbers in the dome, yet...Once he's outside he cant? Hmmm, I dont buy into that.

    His splits CLEARLY suggests his injuries didn't affect him as much as you are leading on, If a guy really was affected...He wouldn't be be having MVP calliber seasons..
    Check the dates. He wasn't hurt when he was putting up the big numbers. I mean did you actually look the guys numbers up?

    Age 28-30, his first 3 years as a starter (not in league until he was 27). Finishes 1, 3, 1 in QBR

    Then '02 - '07 - next 5 years ages 31-35 suffers most of his injuries.

    games played '02 - '07:

    7 (6 GS)
    2 (1 GS)
    10 (9 GS)
    10
    7 (5 GS)

    Then '07-'09 (ages 36-38) (QBR 10, 3, 10)

    Even with the injured middle years his career Rate+ was a 117. Brady is at 119. Elway at 105, Jim Kelly 111, Fouts 112

    So, in the 7 years he had over 277 ATT's his QBR finishes:

    1, 3, 1, 14, 10, 3, 10

    He had so few years doing this because he wasn't in the NFL until he was 27 and was injured during most of a straight six year period.

    Warm weather and dome QB's have an advantage. That would include Montana, Marino, etc.

    Look at the QB's that have played in 1990 or later where most of the big time all time QBR ratings come from, a hell of a mix between dome/warm teams and bad weather QB's. You've got Rodgers, Brady, Ben, Kelly, etc. holding thier own numbers wise.

    Go ahead and do the research for bad weather games Warner played in his 7 full seasons vs his other games. Even if you prove that there is more then the usual drop, it won't affect how well Warner does in the HOF voting. He's got his overall rating (8th all time) and his ring.
    Last edited by bagwell368; 11-15-2012 at 10:54 AM.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post

    Go ahead and do the research for bad weather games Warner played in his 7 full seasons vs his other games. Even if you prove that there is more then the usual drop, it won't affect how well Warner does in the HOF voting. He's got his overall rating (8th all time) and his ring.

    McNabb, McNair, Bledsoe ect would prob all be "hof worthy" if they were given 2 probowl WR's/Dome.

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bos_Sports4Life View Post
    McNabb, McNair, Bledsoe ect would prob all be "hof worthy" if they were given 2 probowl WR's/Dome.
    This is all you can muster after labeling my words: "that's a bunch of crap"?

    Word of the day: lame
    Last edited by bagwell368; 11-15-2012 at 07:25 PM.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  10. #85
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    Brady will start to decline soon, no doubt, I see him here till he retires or we have a suitable replacement.

    A declining Brady still gives you a better chance to win than most other QB's in the league - thats how I view it. Brady was never great because of physical attributes anyways, its all in his head. Keep our OL steady, run the ball and play great defense and Tom Brady's declining skills will not be an issue. The days of throwing the football 65% of the time are done.

    Is he back after 2014? Hopefully on a team-friendly deal that will give us cap flexibility for the present and future. We know the guy has money and we know all Brady wants to do is win.

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    This is all you can muster after labeling my words: "that's a bunch of crap"?
    You are the one who originally attacked me saying he played outside while he was injured when in fact...He only played 1 yr for a team outside..

    Now, I have proven his splits are much more drastic than other great dome QB's, we all know he's had elite help (Holt/Bruce and than Fitz/Bolden)..

    IMO his stats were GREATLY inflated due to those advantages, Now would he have had a few good seasons of being top 6-7? Sure...Would he have had one of the better 8 yr spans of the past couple generations atleast? No...

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    Brady is great. He's in the elite 6 all time (going back to the 1930's) IMO. He's the best in his era. But all the other guys he sits with had careers that ended in retirement. He's netxt.

    Player : last great year : retirement : notes

    Graham : 37 : 37 (7 x Champ (took team to 10 Championship games in a row) 4 x #1 QBR)
    Montana : 33 : 38 (4 x Champ, 2 x #1 QBR, same record as Brady in SB and Championship games)
    Brady : 33, 37? (3x Champ, 2 x SB MVP, 2x #1 QBR)
    Starr: 34 : 37 (5x Champion, MVP of first two SB, 3 x #1 QBR)
    Baugh: 33 : 38 (2x Champ, 7 x All Pro, 4 x #1 QBR)
    Staubach: 37 : 37 (career started at age 27) (2 x Champ, 4 x #1 QBR)

    Brady this year (18%) is playing very near his career average (17% above) the league average QB, and well down from '07 (48%), '10 (30%), '11 (26%). '04, '05, '09 are other similar years to '12.

    I think we all accept that 2007 won't be repeated, but it also appears '10 and '11 may not be repeated as well.

    I don't know why people can't enjoy something just because they know it's going to end - and sooner rather than later.

    Obviously from an emotional point of view people don't want Brady to retire or be dealt. But intellectually not to deal Brady for Luck and a bum player or 3 to make the cap work plus a #1 and #3 and a #2 and a #4 in back to back years is just beyond comprehension. BB's job is not to win this year (unlikely but possible) at the expense of the future. His job is to maximize both.
    What I found funny was that the WEEI website called this the "stupidest question this week".

    Of course I'd trade Brady for Luck. Anyone who wouldn't isn't thinking through the question, or looking at the long term successful outlook of the franchise. Luck projects to be one of the most gifted QBs this league has seen since, well, Brady.

    Here's how I liken this scenario- If I had a beautiful pickup that I had driven everywhere for the last 12 years, had great memories with, and just loved to death-but was starting to creak over rough terrain and didn't have the "git up and go" it once had- and someone were to come up to me and offer me a brand new tricked out Chevy Silverado in an even trade, I might shed a tear or two as I signed the title transfers, but rest assured, I'd sign that ****ing paper.

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bos_Sports4Life View Post
    You are the one who originally attacked me saying he played outside while he was injured when in fact...He only played 1 yr for a team outside..
    Attack, what attack? When he was hurt he played poorly in a few years. He started his career late and had a great career in his time.

    Now, I have proven his splits are much more drastic than other great dome QB's, we all know he's had elite help (Holt/Bruce and than Fitz/Bolden)..
    Where? I see no such proof. Elite help? Maybe he helped make them elite, ever think of that?

    IMO his stats were GREATLY inflated due to those advantages, Now would he have had a few good seasons of being top 6-7? Sure...Would he have had one of the better 8 yr spans of the past couple generations atleast? No...
    I see the opinion, I don't see the facts. You failed almost entirely to respond to post #82. You have no case worthy of response until you respond to that post. I don't expect you'll make the effort.

    I don't even really care about Warner that much, but someday he'll be in the HOF.
    Last edited by bagwell368; 11-18-2012 at 03:20 PM.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    Come back in 12 years when RGIII is a dim memory and Luck turns out to be the next Brady or Peyton Manning.
    And what is that based on? Opinion? It's a fact that RGIII has been better than Luck, and until he proves otherwise I'll take RGIII
    Proud to be PSD's Danny Woodhead

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by celtisox41 View Post
    And what is that based on? Opinion? It's a fact that RGIII has been better than Luck, and until he proves otherwise I'll take RGIII
    It's based on watching NFL QB's since the Fall of 1966. Pocket passers - in particular ones that can move and run a little but choose not to except in dire circumstances outlast and outplay the RG III variety - in general.

    In terms of these two guys. Luck is getting to his 3rd and 4th reads with regularity. RG III is simply winning games on pure athleticism. He has NO touch pass worthy of the name, everything is 90 MPH, even 8 yards to his left in the backfield.

    Feel free to take RG III all you like, come back in 10 years, and Luck will have played more games, at higher QB rating - that's my bet.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

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