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  1. #16
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    Over/Under

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    This thread will be glorious when they announce some of these awards

    What was meant for me will be Mine once again... THE CHAMP OF CHAMPS IS BACK

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by More-Than-Most View Post
    Over/Under

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    This thread will be glorious when they announce some of these awards
    For me personally, i have said most of my peace on the Cabrera/Trout debate.

    What I'll find funny and will be posting to make fun of, are the voters when they release their reasonings for voting for Cabrera.


    Which will be two things.

    1. Triple Crown
    2. His team made the playoffs


    Both of which are logically hilarious and take zero critical thinking to come up with. If this is the level of thought a voter puts into their vote, then obviously they shouldn't be voting.

  3. #18
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    I dont really care who wins anymore haha

    the only reason i hope Miggy wins is to read the end of the world posts by people haha

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    For me personally, i have said most of my peace on the Cabrera/Trout debate.

    What I'll find funny and will be posting to make fun of, are the voters when they release their reasonings for voting for Cabrera.


    Which will be two things.

    1. Triple Crown
    2. His team made the playoffs


    Both of which are logically hilarious and take zero critical thinking to come up with. If this is the level of thought a voter puts into their vote, then obviously they shouldn't be voting.
    At least it's more logical than the reasons for voting for presidential candidates. That's a real joke. At least this is semi-debatable. If you think this is laughable, American politics would give you a heart attack.

    At least in this case, voters at least think they are voting for the right reasons, and know what they are voting for, which is much more than what you can say about the general voting population and the electoral college respectively.

    I know it's off topic, but just a comparison to show you how it's not that ridiculous, and it could be worse.
    lol, please' top 10 p4p- Mayweather/Ward/Marquez/Pacquiao/Maidana/Rigondeaux/Froch/Cotto/B-Hop/Canelo
    Boxing fan? Come discuss Boxing!

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  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by lolPhillies View Post
    At least it's more logical than the reasons for voting for presidential candidates. That's a real joke. At least this is semi-debatable. If you think this is laughable, American politics would give you a heart attack.

    At least in this case, voters at least think they are voting for the right reasons, and know what they are voting for, which is much more than what you can say about the general voting population and the electoral college respectively.

    I know it's off topic, but just a comparison to show you how it's not that ridiculous, and it could be worse.
    There are plenty of people educated in both areas.

    Even with all the so called "baseball experts" there are plenty of times they make the wrong decision, like Adam Jones winning the GG over Mike Trout or Chase Headley over David Wright.

    They have the same access to the information we do and it doesn't seem to help them.
    Last edited by metswon69; 11-08-2012 at 09:50 PM.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    There are plenty of people educated in both areas.

    Even with all the so called "baseball experts" there are plenty of times they make the wrong decision, like Adam Jones winning the GG over Mike Trout or Chase Headley over David Wright.

    They have the same access to the information we do and it doesn't seem to help them.
    Well said. Now if only the experts can be respected for making the "wrong decision", even though wrong is an opinion in this case, instead of being belittled and insulted by random posters on a sports forum that probably know significantly less or are equally mistaken or biased. That would be something. Respecting opinions that differ from one's own. What a concept this is, one I believe PSD should embrace.
    lol, please' top 10 p4p- Mayweather/Ward/Marquez/Pacquiao/Maidana/Rigondeaux/Froch/Cotto/B-Hop/Canelo
    Boxing fan? Come discuss Boxing!

    "We are chasing greatness" Mark Jackson 3/7/14

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    There are plenty of people educated in both areas.

    Even with all the so called "baseball experts" there are plenty of times they make the wrong decision, like Adam Jones winning the GG over Mike Trout or Chase Headley over David Wright.

    They have the same access to the information we do and it doesn't seem to help them.
    I wouldn't call Headley over Wright a mistake, Even as a closet Mets fan. UZR numbers are far too volatile to take them as a true indication of defensive talent. I've watched a lot of both of them and I think they are pretty close. I also remember people calling Wright a bad defender the last couple of years because of UZR(which is almost laughable). People need to trust their eyes more (without the homer glasses of course )
    Wright has the better arm but other than that...
    Last edited by keymax; 11-08-2012 at 10:15 PM.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by keymax View Post
    I wouldn't call Headley over Wright a mistake, Even as a closet Mets fan. UZR numbers are far too volatile to take them as a true indication of defensive talent. I've watched a lot of both of them and I think they are pretty close. I also remember people calling Wright a bad defender the last couple of years because of UZR(which is almost laughable). People need to trust their eyes more (without the homer glasses of course )
    Wright has the better arm but other than that...
    Wright had 16 DRS too, whereas Headley was -3.

    I think that's significant enough to have favored Wright (considering one is qualified as GG caliber and the other is below average)

    I know some of that can be manipulated based on positioning and other variables but Wright deserved the GG this year.

    Wright isn't a bad defender, he had some defensive problems in 2011 but he did play over a month with broken vertebrae in his back. I think Ike Davis helps him out there certainly but i think Wright takes a lot of crap defensively undeservedly.
    Last edited by metswon69; 11-09-2012 at 12:35 AM.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by lolPhillies View Post
    Well said. Now if only the experts can be respected for making the "wrong decision", even though wrong is an opinion in this case, instead of being belittled and insulted by random posters on a sports forum that probably know significantly less or are equally mistaken or biased. That would be something. Respecting opinions that differ from one's own. What a concept this is, one I believe PSD should embrace.
    These are supposed to be "experts", and while they are human and prone to mistakes, the mistake I anticipate they will make is pretty hard to do. It has to take a group of people who are very outdated with their views and too stubborn to use new information that only enhances their views on a player to make that incorrect choice. Ultimately, it's a pretty easy choice. They're supposed to be more knowledgable than us "random posters on a sports forum", but yet most likely will make the wrong choice on the most important award in baseball that could have a profound affect on that player's life. So why not criticize them? It is an opinion by the voters, but it would be a stupid opinion in this case.
    Last edited by SFrush90; 11-08-2012 at 11:40 PM.

    Shailene Woodley

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    Wright had 16 DRS too, whereas Headley was -3.

    I think that's significant enough to have favored Wright (considering one is qualified as GG caliber and the other is below average)

    I know some of that can be manipulated based on positioning and other variables but Wright deserved the GG this year.

    Wright isn't a bad defender, he had some defensive problems last year but he did play over a month with broken vertebrae in his back. I think Ike Davis helps him out there certainly but i think Wright takes a lot of crap defensively undeservedly.
    Not arguing for or against Headley here....but.


    I did manage to watch several Headley games this year (being a west coast team, I would watch a lot of Padres games after the Cards would go to bed).

    Headley was very sound defensively in the games I watched. Wright clearly has more range. But he was sound.

    UZR and DRS, I will always stand by those over my own perceptions. But my perceptions also tell me that Headley was average to slightly better than average defensively.

    Then again, I didn't watch every game, and I can't keep, with an open mind, his ability to get to balls and throw guys out comparatively to the rest of the league.

    But when I saw his defensive metrics slightly in the negative, I was a little surprised, he seems better than his numbers would indicate.


    Wright meanwhile, very good this year. Def better than he was in years past too. A ton more range it seemed.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post

    Wright meanwhile, very good this year. Def better than he was in years past too. A ton more range it seemed.
    This is one of my main pet peeves with defensive metrics. Range isn't something you can improve or get better at through work. Either you have it or not. It declines with age and injuries, but you can't lose and add range on a yearly basis when you're healthy. And if I'm not mistaken Wright was healthy(at least regarding to injuries thatcould hinder his work in the field) outside of 2011..

  12. #27
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    Kershaw is just getting dumped on by MLB Network...idiots like Billy Ripkin and Harold Reynolds.

    He's the first pitcher since Johnson to win back to back ERA titles in MLB if I heard correctly, was first in K%, WHIP, ERA, second in Opp BA, 1 behind in Ks, 2nd in innings pitched despite battling a borderline surgery hip injury and foot issue...Not sure what he has to do to earn more respect from these guys. It is really hard to watch these shows and hearing, "Well, yeah, Kershaw had a good year, but you see though..only 14 wins..that'll hurt him. My choice is Gio..You talk about a guy who wasn't even the ace of his own staff going out there down the stretch...wow...he's got my vote. Either him or Dicky of course. Also, I was surprised to not see Cueto make this list.."

    Kershaw barely even exists to these guys and he is the best pitcher.
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  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by THINKBLUE15 View Post
    Kershaw is just getting dumped on by MLB Network...idiots like Billy Ripkin and Harold Reynolds.

    He's the first pitcher since Johnson to win back to back ERA titles in MLB if I heard correctly, was first in K%, WHIP, ERA, second in Opp BA, 1 behind in Ks, 2nd in innings pitched despite battling a borderline surgery hip injury and foot issue...Not sure what he has to do to earn more respect from these guys. It is really hard to watch these shows and hearing, "Well, yeah, Kershaw had a good year, but you see though..only 14 wins..that'll hurt him. My choice is Gio..You talk about a guy who wasn't even the ace of his own staff going out there down the stretch...wow...he's got my vote. Either him or Dicky of course. Also, I was surprised to not see Cueto make this list.."

    Kershaw barely even exists to these guys and he is the best pitcher.
    Former players make the worst 'analysts' (and I am using that word very loosely). I have no idea how someone can make a career out of a sport and know so little about it.

  14. #29
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    It's seriously so stupid how they use wins as their reasoning. They've been in the game for a good amount of time, but can't get how wins are meaningless when comparing pitchers.

    Shailene Woodley

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by keymax View Post
    This is one of my main pet peeves with defensive metrics. Range isn't something you can improve or get better at through work. Either you have it or not. It declines with age and injuries, but you can't lose and add range on a yearly basis when you're healthy. And if I'm not mistaken Wright was healthy(at least regarding to injuries thatcould hinder his work in the field) outside of 2011..
    footwork and positioning.

    He was also more agile, he seemed more 'loose'.


    He got to balls I don't recall seeing him get to in years past.

    Again, this is my perception. But if you have say, a nagging back injury (not necessarily reported), your reaction time, or ability to move in small, quick motions could be impacted.

    He also could have simply been playing deeper. There are a lot of factors that could attribute to an increase in range.


    I'm saying this based on my perception, and the numbers do support it.

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