Sanchez isn't the problem!

[Realistik84]

Average? If Sanchez was an average starting QB, I would TAKE that. Do you realize who is average in the NFL? Joe Flacco...Andrew Luck...Matt Schaub...and they are all actually GOOD. Sanchez looks lost sometimes. He's definitely below average and I don't think that's even debatable right now. Until the guy can go more than 1 or 2 games without completely blowing up, turning the ball over and making poor decisions he will always be below average.

I agree with this...I used to support Sanchez even up until last year. He was Average when he came in IMO, it is just that the QB caliber across the league has increased significantly.

If you think about it 26/27 of the 32 Teams have what seems like their Franchise QB.

Only exceptions: JETS, BILLS, ChIEFS, JAGS.
Some might argue Browns but they invested a 1st in Weeden
Others maybe Oakland but they invested 2 1sts in him and he is on pace for 4700 yards.

Time for a reality check people - Unless Sanchez pulls a miracle these next 2-3 games and throws for 67% or above and out of his mind, this team is going a different direction next year if not before.

[CostanzaNumba0]

In 09 he was terrible..But he was a rookie. In 2010 he was avg. What you have to understand is The Jets defense and running game carried the team into the playoffs.

Sanchez 2009 12 td 20 int 53.8% QBR of 63 28th ranked QB

Sanchez 2010 17td 13int 54% QBR of 75 27th ranked QB

Sanchez 2011 26td 18int 56% QBR of 78 23rd ranked QB

Sanchez 2012 10td 8int 52% QBR of 72 30th ranked QB

Sorry man but Sanchez just hasnt been what the Jets thought they were getting with a top 5 pick.

This is the most eye opening post of the lot, it clearly illustrates what we have here. Sanchez is not average, in fact, hes not even close to average. He is in the bottom 3 or 4 qbs in the league. He should be handed his pinkslip, time to see what mcelroy can do.

[nate2usmc]

USC qb's suck. Should've known better than think Sanchez was gonna be different.

[jetsfansince'67]

Sorry, another long one, put the points are simple and quick!

We are all spilling our hearts out - in good form, I should add - about why, in the 4th year of this regime, our Jets are 3-5, and in danger (I'm not saying it's a done deal - not by a long shot - there are 8 more games!) of having an awful season, which I would define as worse than 8-8 (and 8-8, two years in a row is nothing to cheer for, really).

The 1st thing I want to say is - I can "hear" and feel how much we all care about our Jets, and I love you all for it!

2nd thing - Nobody is wrong in this discussion! The hard part is, as thinking/feeling beings - we want to be able to "put our finger on THE problem," wrap it all up in a bundle, so that we can make sense of it, and move forward.

The problem is - this probably can only be done in "tic tac toe," as most things - particularly what's up with our Jets - is too complicated to do that.

I think both major lines of thinking are correct: Argument 1) It's not all Sanchez's fault as this years team is the weakest, talent wise, on offense (not so great defensively either, yet) than any team in REX/Sanchez era. Poor WRs, 1 TE that missed most of the 1st half of the season, RBs that scare NO ONE, and an O-line that has not replaced Faneca and Woody. Add to this that TREX (Wood-dick) STUCK IT TO SANCHEZ this year in so many ways, I can't even believe it: A) make Sanchez go kiss and make up with Holmes - really? (who was the friggin' arsehole); B) trade for Tebow (no matter how strong Sanchez is, he has been bashed, and "put in his place" by REX, not supported like a Franchise QB should, and then sabotaged with the TRADE FOR TEBOW - it's not like he was just out there without a team - we spent a 4th and a 6th to trade for him).

Argument 2) A great QB can over come many obstacles, and can raise the level of the talent of the players around him, and finds ways to win. Yes, the GREAT QBs can do this - but most of them have had a heck of a lot of help behind them. It is not fair to compare Sanchez to Andrew Luck, RGIII, Stafford, Dalton, M. Ryan - even Flacco - because: A) theses guys all started 3-4 years in college, and have about the same amount of experience as Sanchez - they just got it in college; B) they were heralded as the guy that was going to lead their franchise to greatness - and had teams built around them - and they were used to being "the man." There was a lot of skepticism about Sanchez going pro (although it was the absolute right financial move for Mark - he never has to worry about money again - even if he never plays after next year).

AND - lets not take ANYTHING away from how Mark Sanchez played in the playoffs!!!!!
2009: Bengals - 12/15, 182 yards, 1TD, 0 INT - GREAT!
Chargers - 12/23, 100 yards, 1TD, 1 INT - not so great
Colts - 18/31, 302 yards, 2 TDs, 1 INT - pretty good
2010:
Colts - 18/31, 189 yards, 0 TD, 1 INT - not so great - BUT LEAD THE WINNING DRIVE - that's a win
Patriots - 16/25, 194 yards, 3 TDs, 0 INTs - GREAT GREAT GREAT
Steelers - 20/33, 233 yards, 2 TDs, 0 INTs - GREAT GREAT GREAT

So what is it? It is that Sanchez is a gifted athlete, but not a GREAT QB that has never been supported correctly, has had the talent stripped away, and has been actively sabotaged by the current regime, and has turned into a somewhat mentally brittle QB without the confidence to allow him to be at his best, let it all hang out - trust what he sees, make the right throws.

A GREAT QB just knows that he's the man. The harder it gets, the more he knows that he has to elevate his game to carry those around him.

What will (probably) happen. Sanchez deserves the rest of this season to show what he's got, and because of his new contract - UNLESS something I'm not seeing happens - Sanchez will be given every chance to be the starting QB for our Jets next year - UNLESS, somehow someone beats him out in training camp for the starting job - someone that came cheap, OR - we trade, perhaps the greatest CB of all time Darrelle Revis - and can get a great young QB - but this CAN'T happen in time for this year's draft - and I don't think there are any sure fire GREAT QBs in the draft next year - so: I think the best thing to do is cut all the dead weight we can, hope that Revis shows he's back to greatness before next year's trading deadline (or just keep him, but it's going to cost a huge amount of money).
Draft the best players available - making sure that we get a solid RB, and a great receiver/TE, and pass rusher. Marshall our resources, and wait for the next opportunity to grab the next GREAT QB - and go from there.

Many may argue this, but IMHO - there is NO WAY that Revis can be THE GREATEST JET EVER - unless he is the reason we win a SB, and I'm sad to say that a CB never did this.

I know I'm not speaking for anyone - I'm just saying that I believe almost everyone here is making a good point, and it's coming from the right place (anyone that's bitter and bashing should take a look at that). The thing is - there are a whole lot of reasons why things are as they are. I just hope that we can do some sort of miracle turn around, and pump Sanchez full of confidence (from good things happening - even if they're lucky, and go on a run), and then you never know where we might end up!

GO JETS!!!

[CostanzaNumba0]

Sorry, another long one, put the points are simple and quick!

We are all spilling our hearts out - in good form, I should add - about why, in the 4th year of this regime, our Jets are 3-5, and in danger (I'm not saying it's a done deal - not by a long shot - there are 8 more games!) of having an awful season, which I would define as worse than 8-8 (and 8-8, two years in a row is nothing to cheer for, really).

The 1st thing I want to say is - I can "hear" and feel how much we all care about our Jets, and I love you all for it!

2nd thing - Nobody is wrong in this discussion! The hard part is, as thinking/feeling beings - we want to be able to "put our finger on THE problem," wrap it all up in a bundle, so that we can make sense of it, and move forward.

The problem is - this probably can only be done in "tic tac toe," as most things - particularly what's up with our Jets - is too complicated to do that.

I think both major lines of thinking are correct: Argument 1) It's not all Sanchez's fault as this years team is the weakest, talent wise, on offense (not so great defensively either, yet) than any team in REX/Sanchez era. Poor WRs, 1 TE that missed most of the 1st half of the season, RBs that scare NO ONE, and an O-line that has not replaced Faneca and Woody. Add to this that TREX (Wood-dick) STUCK IT TO SANCHEZ this year in so many ways, I can't even believe it: A) make Sanchez go kiss and make up with Holmes - really? (who was the friggin' arsehole); B) trade for Tebow (no matter how strong Sanchez is, he has been bashed, and "put in his place" by REX, not supported like a Franchise QB should, and then sabotaged with the TRADE FOR TEBOW - it's not like he was just out there without a team - we spent a 4th and a 6th to trade for him).

Argument 2) A great QB can over come many obstacles, and can raise the level of the talent of the players around him, and finds ways to win. Yes, the GREAT QBs can do this - but most of them have had a heck of a lot of help behind them. It is not fair to compare Sanchez to Andrew Luck, RGIII, Stafford, Dalton, M. Ryan - even Flacco - because: A) theses guys all started 3-4 years in college, and have about the same amount of experience as Sanchez - they just got it in college; B) they were heralded as the guy that was going to lead their franchise to greatness - and had teams built around them - and they were used to being "the man." There was a lot of skepticism about Sanchez going pro (although it was the absolute right financial move for Mark - he never has to worry about money again - even if he never plays after next year).

AND - lets not take ANYTHING away from how Mark Sanchez played in the playoffs!!!!!
2009: Bengals - 12/15, 182 yards, 1TD, 0 INT - GREAT!
Chargers - 12/23, 100 yards, 1TD, 1 INT - not so great
Colts - 18/31, 302 yards, 2 TDs, 1 INT - pretty good
2010:
Colts - 18/31, 189 yards, 0 TD, 1 INT - not so great - BUT LEAD THE WINNING DRIVE - that's a win
Patriots - 16/25, 194 yards, 3 TDs, 0 INTs - GREAT GREAT GREAT
Steelers - 20/33, 233 yards, 2 TDs, 0 INTs - GREAT GREAT GREAT

So what is it? It is that Sanchez is a gifted athlete, but not a GREAT QB that has never been supported correctly, has had the talent stripped away, and has been actively sabotaged by the current regime, and has turned into a somewhat mentally brittle QB without the confidence to allow him to be at his best, let it all hang out - trust what he sees, make the right throws.

A GREAT QB just knows that he's the man. The harder it gets, the more he knows that he has to elevate his game to carry those around him.

What will (probably) happen. Sanchez deserves the rest of this season to show what he's got, and because of his new contract - UNLESS something I'm not seeing happens - Sanchez will be given every chance to be the starting QB for our Jets next year - UNLESS, somehow someone beats him out in training camp for the starting job - someone that came cheap, OR - we trade, perhaps the greatest CB of all time Darrelle Revis - and can get a great young QB - but this CAN'T happen in time for this year's draft - and I don't think there are any sure fire GREAT QBs in the draft next year - so: I think the best thing to do is cut all the dead weight we can, hope that Revis shows he's back to greatness before next year's trading deadline (or just keep him, but it's going to cost a huge amount of money).
Draft the best players available - making sure that we get a solid RB, and a great receiver/TE, and pass rusher. Marshall our resources, and wait for the next opportunity to grab the next GREAT QB - and go from there.

Many may argue this, but IMHO - there is NO WAY that Revis can be THE GREATEST JET EVER - unless he is the reason we win a SB, and I'm sad to say that a CB never did this.

I know I'm not speaking for anyone - I'm just saying that I believe almost everyone here is making a good point, and it's coming from the right place (anyone that's bitter and bashing should take a look at that). The thing is - there are a whole lot of reasons why things are as they are. I just hope that we can do some sort of miracle turn around, and pump Sanchez full of confidence (from good things happening - even if they're lucky, and go on a run), and then you never know where we might end up!

GO JETS!!!

Sanchez is not a gifted athlete. RGIII is a gifted athlete, Luck is a gifted athlete, Cam is a gifted athlete, Rodgers is a gifted athlete. Sanchez is not a gifted athlete.

[Jetsguy]

Sanchez is not a gifted athlete. RGIII is a gifted athlete, Luck is a gifted athlete, Cam is a gifted athlete, Rodgers is a gifted athlete. Sanchez is not a gifted athlete.

Agreed

JF67

I agree with some of what you said and some I dont. I will say this though as I see it done by our fellow Jets fans often.

What is the point in citing Mark's 4 or 5 good playoff games when we have 60 regular season games where he has been somewhere between below average to awful?

I understand Playoff games are more important and more pressure etc but its still a game just like the rest. I too, would value a playoff game over a regular season game but when we have such a large sample size on him we need to look at the entire picture and as I and others have posted, those numbers speak volumes and tell us based on stats he has been in the bottom handful of QB's in the NFL since the day he entered the league.

I agree though, he is our guy the rest of this year and it is very likely next year as well, which does not bode well, IMO for us.

[jetsfansince'67]

Agreed

JF67

I agree with some of what you said and some I dont. I will say this though as I see it done by our fellow Jets fans often.

What is the point in citing Mark's 4 or 5 good playoff games when we have 60 regular season games where he has been somewhere between below average to awful?

I understand Playoff games are more important and more pressure etc but its still a game just like the rest. I too, would value a playoff game over a regular season game but when we have such a large sample size on him we need to look at the entire picture and as I and others have posted, those numbers speak volumes and tell us based on stats he has been in the bottom handful of QB's in the NFL since the day he entered the league.

I agree though, he is our guy the rest of this year and it is very likely next year as well, which does not bode well, IMO for us.

I agree, I was just responding to someone that said Sanchez was awful in the playoffs as well as in the regular season, and that is just ERRONEOUS! He had 3 great, 1 OK, 1 not so good, and 1 terrible (which we won) -
HOWEVER - I agree that is such a small sample size compared to his mediocrity throughout about 3 years.

We can't forget that last year - with no better talent than this year (well, Holmes wasn't injured - but he was poisonous, and Plax caught a 7 great throws for red zone TD passes, and Plax made 1 spectacular catch) - that up to 7-4; - Sanchez had a passer rating above 84 - middle of the pack, and was fair in completion % at just under 60%, high end in TD to INT ratio - and then played 1 OK game in beating the Bills with 4 key TDs, but low, <50% completions and 1 INT, and Redskins, and then 3 TERRIBLE games to finish the season - BUT NONE OF THIS IS GREAT - but it looked like it might be an up turn, hope for the future - and this year has been horrible - 30th out of 34 qualifying QBs - worst of his career!

So, I was just saying that 1) he's not a GREAT QB (by any measurement), but; 2) he has never been in an environment that was built for him (in fact, it has been unsupportive, babying, and down right destructive), and he has had eroding talent, and all of this has made everything worse!

I hope he can turn it around, but then again - not playing terrible, and his contract almost guarantee that he'll be starting next year - in fact - as I've mentioned, there may be no way out of that - but without developing a QB friendly offense, and continuing to put the EMPHASIS on winning with great defense, and a running game - this regime may never try to go out and get the "GREAT QB," and it will doom us to mediocrity until TREX are gone, and Wood-dick hires a GM, and HC that: 1) know that you need a great QB to build a powerhouse; 2) have the juice, and the balls to tell Wood-dick to keep his hands off the team, as he has no idea what it takes to build a perennial power-house, and let the new Regime do what they have to do!

Different thing - I don't like boasting, but if it helps the team play better - so be it. Every New York radio announcer that is telling the Jets to shut-up - what do they care! It shows the anti-Jets bias in the media - what's new? If our Jets end up looking stupid for talking and losing - I'd say - what's new?

GO JETS!!!

[Jetsguy]

^^^ Agreed, and as much as I am against Mark long term it is not like a rookie would come in next year if we change nothing and shine (not to mention I am not in love with any QB is this years class). The only way around this is to trade for a starting caliber QB and we all know this never happens.

[ccugrad1]

But if the Jets were 6-2 instead of 3-5, would any of this matter? I hear people talk about Luck; what has been so special about him? If you look at his numbers, a lot of them are Mark Sanchez-esque. But people think he is wonderful because the Colts are 6-3.

And while it is talked about, why is the defense getting a free pass? Darrelle Revis or not, the Jets weren't tackling well back in week 2 when Revis was on the field; 12 sacks in 8 games, or 29th in the league-- Where is the PASS RUSH?

[jetsfansince'67]

Sanchez is not a gifted athlete. RGIII is a gifted athlete, Luck is a gifted athlete, Cam is a gifted athlete, Rodgers is a gifted athlete. Sanchez is not a gifted athlete.

Wait a minute. You are talking about GREAT ATHLETES. Mark Sanchez is a "gifted athlete" in that he ran a "lazy" 4.82-40, a 32.5" Vertical, 9'8" Broad Jump. He was good at Basketball and Baseball.

Drew Brees: 4.83 40, VJ - 32, BJ (no jokes please) - 8'9"
compare these guys to Tom Brady - 5.28 40, VJ - 24.5", BJ (OK make a joke)-8'3"

I never intended to suggest that Mark Sanchez is a great athlete, or in the same class Cam Newton, or RGIII. I said he was a gifted athlete. I think it's almost impossible to become an NFL QB without being a gifted athlete (Tom Brady aside).
RGIII - 4.41 40, VJ - 39", BJ - 10'
Cam Newton - 4.59 40, VJ - 35', BJ - 10'6"
Andrew Luck - 4.67 40, VJ - 36", BJ - 10'4"
Mark Sanchez - 4.82, VJ - 32.5", BJ - 9'8"

Really - RGIII, with that speed, puts him a cut above all of them, but Sanchez is no slouch either.

GO JETS!!!

[jetsfansince'67]

But if the Jets were 6-2 instead of 3-5, would any of this matter? I hear people talk about Luck; what has been so special about him? If you look at his numbers, a lot of them are Mark Sanchez-esque. But people think he is wonderful because the Colts are 6-3.

And while it is talked about, why is the defense getting a free pass? Darrelle Revis or not, the Jets weren't tackling well back in week 2 when Revis was on the field; 12 sacks in 8 games, or 29th in the league-- Where is the PASS RUSH?

I agree with you about the defense, and the thing that worries me is - the defense has been REX's focus, and area of expertise. I don't know why we don't get the guy that has 6 sacks already. I sure hope Q. Coples can turn it on, and this would be a good weekend to do so.

I think you are close about Luck's performance - QB rating of 79.1 - so far, but with Reggie Wayne - they're the reason that team is winning. The thing is - Andrew Luck's numbers, at this point, are better than Mark Sanchez has ever achieved, if only by a little, but don't you think he is going to be a GREAT QB? Only time will tell.

GO JETS!!!

[ccugrad1]

I agree with you about the defense, and the thing that worries me is - the defense has been REX's focus, and area of expertise. I don't know why we don't get the guy that has 6 sacks already. I sure hope Q. Coples can turn it on, and this would be a good weekend to do so.

I think you are close about Luck's performance - QB rating of 79.1 - so far, but with Reggie Wayne - they're the reason that team is winning. The thing is - Andrew Luck's numbers, at this point, are better than Mark Sanchez has ever achieved, if only by a little, but don't you think he is going to be a GREAT QB? Only time will tell.

GO JETS!!!

I agree I think Luck will be fine, but Jets fans would be all over him with numbers like he has with the INT's, fumbles, completion percentage, etc. And let's be honest, Luck has a lot more talent at his disposal than Sanchez could ever think. Reggie Wayne would come to NY, even at his upper age, and INSTANTLY be the Jets #1 WR, even if Holmes is healthy.

I agree with you too on the defense; 12 sacks in 8 games?

[CostanzaNumba0]

Wait a minute. You are talking about GREAT ATHLETES. Mark Sanchez is a "gifted athlete" in that he ran a "lazy" 4.82-40, a 32.5" Vertical, 9'8" Broad Jump. He was good at Basketball and Baseball.

Drew Brees: 4.83 40, VJ - 32, BJ (no jokes please) - 8'9"
compare these guys to Tom Brady - 5.28 40, VJ - 24.5", BJ (OK make a joke)-8'3"

I never intended to suggest that Mark Sanchez is a great athlete, or in the same class Cam Newton, or RGIII. I said he was a gifted athlete. I think it's almost impossible to become an NFL QB without being a gifted athlete (Tom Brady aside).
RGIII - 4.41 40, VJ - 39", BJ - 10'
Cam Newton - 4.59 40, VJ - 35', BJ - 10'6"
Andrew Luck - 4.67 40, VJ - 36", BJ - 10'4"
Mark Sanchez - 4.82, VJ - 32.5", BJ - 9'8"

Really - RGIII, with that speed, puts him a cut above all of them, but Sanchez is no slouch either.

GO JETS!!!

You just proved my point. Gifted and great are semantics. If by the standards you use 4.82, VJ - 32.5", BJ - 9'8" is "gifted" then pretty much every starting highschool tailback is a "gifted" athlete, then I'm a "gifted" athlete. Its nonsense, he is nowhere near the class of the other guys mentioned, 4.67 and 4.82 are in different universes. you also left out rodgers who ran a 4.6

[GreenLantern]

When you post those 3, don't forget to add the talent that is around them when making a point. Take Matt Schaub for example-- No one wants to tell me his job isn't MUCH easier with Andre Johnson at WR, Arian Foster/Ben Tate in the backfield, Owen Daniels at TE, and a legtimate offensive line to boot. Heck, the Texans backup RB is better than anything we got at RB.

Or take Joe Flacco-- Don't tell me his job isn't much easier with Ray Rice, Torrey Smith, Anquan Boldin, and their offensive line.

There are a few #2 and #3 players on these teams that could come to the NY Jets and would immediately be the #1 guy.

People can say what they want, a QB is only as good as the talent around him

And what did Sanchez do when he had

Edwards, holmes , cotchery,smith,keller,tomlinson greene etc?

54%

If 26% of your passes are either over thrown or under thrown then tell me how talent at the wr and RB positions help? They dont.

If Sanchez was making reads, hitting wr's in stride, completing passes around 57-59%, not turning the ball over...Then I could see how more talent would help him.

There are QB's in this league working with less that are doing more.

Funny in 2010 the Colts had 10 wins. Take away 1 QB and they finish with 2 wins. Add 1 rookie QB and the Colts have a winning record with the exact same team that finished with 2 wins.....Yeah a QB is only as good as the talent around him.....

Its more like a good QB makes the players around him better.

[GreenLantern]

But if the Jets were 6-2 instead of 3-5, would any of this matter? I hear people talk about Luck; what has been so special about him? If you look at his numbers, a lot of them are Mark Sanchez-esque. But people think he is wonderful because the Colts are 6-3.

And while it is talked about, why is the defense getting a free pass? Darrelle Revis or not, the Jets weren't tackling well back in week 2 when Revis was on the field; 12 sacks in 8 games, or 29th in the league-- Where is the PASS RUSH?

You are comparing a Rookie QB to a 4 year vet lol...Compare Lucks numbers to Sanchez rookie numbers...Yeah not even close.

If Reggie Wayne were on the Jets you would be calling him slow and washed up. Luck even as a rookie can make every throw. Sanchez is a 1 read QB if his first read isnt wide open he struggles.

As far as the defense..Thats a different argument and part of the reason 99% of the people have stated that Sanchez is part of the problem.