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  1. #946
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    Quote Originally Posted by themadstork View Post
    The Colts had cap room and picks...we didn't. Big difference.

    And Luck panned out. Not really a fair comparison.

    -Stork
    Agree 100%


    And they had to go through a 2 win season, and it took two years. We are in year one. IMO, we are heading the right direction.

  2. #947
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    The new Raiders just got their wake up call. Welcome to the NFL. I hope RM and DA are taking notes. This roster should look different next year. Unfortunately for the Nation we are in for a couple of long dismal seasons. I have gone from hoping they win to hoping they are competitive. No quality Vet wants to play in Oakland. This oragization is a career killer at the moment. Dump the high priced players and get all the draft picks you can get. Trade down in the draft for picks. Start over.

  3. #948
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    Geez, it's Monday morning, guys. Time to back away from the precipice.

    Sure, it looks bad. But what really happened?

    We flew back East for a "morning" game, looked lethargic and disoriented and lost. Happened before. Lots of times.

    We played without our #1 and #2 backs and lost. Happened before. Lots of times.

    We played a much more talented and a much more cohesive team that has been together for years playing under the same system and lost. Happened before. Lots of times.

    When the schedule was first posted there weren't many fans in this or any forum who didn't see Oakland losing yesterday. The only question was, "By how much?" Now we know.

    Get over it. No one said it was going to be easy. Let me say that again for the optimism-impaired: No one said it was going to be easy. There are still plenty of games left to improve as a team. I'm looking forward to seeing those improvements. Now you can stay here and wallow in the muck, or you can pick yourselves up and keep it moving. If you thought our best days are in the here and now, well, now you got something to put in your pipe and smoke. Hopefully the taste will make us better, not bitter. Saddle up and let's ride.
    "The United States military doesn't DO pin pricks." ~ President Barack Obama.

  4. #949
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaiderLakersA's View Post
    Geez, it's Monday morning, guys. Time to back away from the precipice.

    Sure, it looks bad. But what really happened?

    We flew back East for a "morning" game, looked lethargic and disoriented and lost. Happened before. Lots of times.

    We played without our #1 and #2 backs and lost. Happened before. Lots of times.

    We played a much more talented and a much more cohesive team that has been together for years playing under the same system and lost. Happened before. Lots of times.

    When the schedule was first posted there weren't many fans in this or any forum who didn't see Oakland losing yesterday. The only question was, "By how much?" Now we know.

    Get over it. No one said it was going to be easy. Let me say that again for the optimism-impaired: No one said it was going to be easy. There are still plenty of games left to improve as a team. I'm looking forward to seeing those improvements. Now you can stay here and wallow in the muck, or you can pick yourselves up and keep it moving. If you thought our best days are in the here and now, well, now you got something to put in your pipe and smoke. Hopefully the taste will make us better, not bitter. Saddle up and let's ride.
    i will call us realists. We didn't really care about the game because we expected it to be bad. it was the optimists that were overreacting and crying about it the most. I want the best pick we can get. if we can get the 2nd or 3rd pick and haul in what the rams did it will be very good for the future of the raiders. the raiders weren't going to be a successful team anyway.


    Yall let me slip?!?!

  5. #950
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    Quote Originally Posted by raiderposting View Post
    i will call us realists. We didn't really care about the game because we expected it to be bad. it was the optimists that were overreacting and crying about it the most. I want the best pick we can get. if we can get the 2nd or 3rd pick and haul in what the rams did it will be very good for the future of the raiders. the raiders weren't going to be a successful team anyway.
    Nope, you can't call them optimists. Optimism is having hope in the darkest hour. It's unwavering.

    What you're referring to are what I call hyperbolics. People who think we're world beaters one day, and scum of the earth the next. Like a pendulum, they think they're right, even if it's only twice a day. Whatever you call them, don't call them optimists. It doesn't apply.

    Even a realist can have optimism. The fact that many "realists" are still Raiders fans reflects that. Otherwise, they'd have set aside their jolly rogers years ago. It's been a decade of losing. Say what you want, but without optimism no realist would think it practical, prudent or logical to stick around otherwise.
    "The United States military doesn't DO pin pricks." ~ President Barack Obama.

  6. #951
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaiderLakersA's View Post
    Nope, you can't call them optimists. Optimism is having hope in the darkest hour. It's unwavering.

    What you're referring to are what I call hyperbolics. People who think we're world beaters one day, and scum of the earth the next. Like a pendulum, they think they're right, even if it's only twice a day. Whatever you call them, don't call them optimists. It doesn't apply.

    Even a realist can have optimism. The fact that many "realists" are still Raiders fans reflects that. Otherwise, they'd have set aside their jolly rogers years ago. It's been a decade of losing. Say what you want, but without optimism no realist would think it practical, prudent or logical to stick around otherwise.
    Awesome stuff man, kudos to you brother.

    -Stork

  7. #952
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    while I also enjoy the analogy,I must dissagree with the assesment.
    a few key decisons that greatly effected our ability to be more competitive were not made.

    I dont blame the players for that.

    there is no excuse for an unprepared team.They raiders offered nothing the last two weeks to be optimistic about(lol).

  8. #953
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    Baltimore is a very good football team, yes the 55 points they hung on the Raiders was embarrassing, but I feel a lot better about 2012 than I did 2006. We have a regime looking forward, not one stuck trying to replicate the past. Walsh won 2 games his rookie season, Jimmy Johnson was lucky to win 1. Its tough to win without a draft and a no cap space. Any head coach can roll when things are good and rosters are talented (Bill Callahan, Barry Switzer, George Seifert). It takes a great head coach to grind at it week after week and build something out nothing. This season will say a lot about Allen and if he has the "it" factor people claim he has.

  9. #954
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    Unfortunately, McKenzie and Allen put together are no Walsh, and we don't have Herschel Walker.

    Ricky Stenhouse, Jr.
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    2013 NASCAR Sprint Cup Rookie of the Year Winner

  10. #955
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    Quote Originally Posted by NC_RaiderFan5 View Post
    Unfortunately, McKenzie and Allen put together are no Walsh, and we don't have Herschel Walker.
    We don't know that yet. Monte Clark (Walsh's predecessor) was a solid football guy and lots of Bay Area faithful were not sold on Walsh, especially in 1980 when the Raiders won the Super Bowl with the QB most were blaming for Monte Clark's demise.

    Unlike Walsh or Johnson, these guys started with no draft to speak of, and unlike Walsh or Johnson they deal with a salary cap.


    We don't have Hershel Walker, this is true, but maybe McFadden can be moved to a contender for some mid round draft picks.

    I believe in what Reggie and Allen are peddling.

  11. #956
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    Clark coached the 49ers in 1976, Ken Meyer took over in 1977, Pete McCulley got fired in 1978 after going 1-8 and his defensive coordinator and successor Fred O'Connor got fired after finishing up 1-6. Walsh was hired to coach in 1979 and promptly went 2-14.

    Good things can come out of dark times. You just gotta be patient.

    -Stork

  12. #957
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    Two great posts from RaidersLakersA's -- who I now dub "RLA" 'cuz his handle takes too much effort to type.

    Quote Originally Posted by themadstork View Post
    Clark coached the 49ers in 1976, Ken Meyer took over in 1977, Pete McCulley got fired in 1978 after going 1-8 and his defensive coordinator and successor Fred O'Connor got fired after finishing up 1-6. Walsh was hired to coach in 1979 and promptly went 2-14.

    Good things can come out of dark times. You just gotta be patient.

    -Stork
    I'm uncomfortable with that analogy. Here's why.

    Bill Walsh was unquestionably a genius. He reinvented the way an offense could be run, and he did on two fronts - systemically, with a brand new nomenclature and verbiage; technically, with a brand new series of fundamentals and techniques that retaught offenses how to play the game.

    But the real key to Walsh's decade of success was his ability to find high-caliber talent in later rounds of the draft. As is often the case, amateurs talk tactics (X's and O's) while professionals talk logistics - i.e. roster talent.

    Our assumption that things will get better hinges on Reggie's ability to find talent. For the Raiders to have a good team, he'll need to find an unusual amount of good players that Dennis Allen develops to an unusually high level. For this to be a 'great' decade, both men will have to do that for at least five or six straight years.

    Yesterday's results aside, I believe I have seen real development of defensive backs under Allen. That gives me hope - perhaps the Raiders will excel with one element of football, which is a starting point for a good team.

    But I must admit I'm worried about this team going forward. Our assumption of better teams comes from the notion that a modern organization and a modern front office will breed better results... but for every Patriots organization that turns the corner, there are teams like the Lions and Bills that seem mired in mediocracy or worse.

    I haven't lost the faith, but our hopes and dreams are tied to that - faith. Time will tell if it was blind faith or not...

  13. #958
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    Quote Originally Posted by themadstork View Post
    Clark coached the 49ers in 1976, Ken Meyer took over in 1977, Pete McCulley got fired in 1978 after going 1-8 and his defensive coordinator and successor Fred O'Connor got fired after finishing up 1-6. Walsh was hired to coach in 1979 and promptly went 2-14.

    Good things can come out of dark times. You just gotta be patient.

    -Stork
    I remember those days very well. Clark's teams where respectable in 1976. Padecky wrote a very scathing op ed when Plunkett won Super Bowl XV on the state of the 49ers, the consensus being that SF should have stayed the course with Clark and Debartello and the Stanford Professor were clueless.

    A year later attitudes were different.
    Last edited by Snake Plissken; 11-12-2012 at 02:55 PM.

  14. #959
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shred003 View Post
    Two great posts from RaidersLakersA's -- who I now dub "RLA" 'cuz his handle takes too much effort to type.


    I'm uncomfortable with that analogy. Here's why.

    Bill Walsh was unquestionably a genius. He reinvented the way an offense could be run, and he did on two fronts - systemically, with a brand new nomenclature and verbiage; technically, with a brand new series of fundamentals and techniques that retaught offenses how to play the game.

    But the real key to Walsh's decade of success was his ability to find high-caliber talent in later rounds of the draft. As is often the case, amateurs talk tactics (X's and O's) while professionals talk logistics - i.e. roster talent.

    Our assumption that things will get better hinges on Reggie's ability to find talent. For the Raiders to have a good team, he'll need to find an unusual amount of good players that Dennis Allen develops to an unusually high level. For this to be a 'great' decade, both men will have to do that for at least five or six straight years.

    Yesterday's results aside, I believe I have seen real development of defensive backs under Allen. That gives me hope - perhaps the Raiders will excel with one element of football, which is a starting point for a good team.

    But I must admit I'm worried about this team going forward. Our assumption of better teams comes from the notion that a modern organization and a modern front office will breed better results... but for every Patriots organization that turns the corner, there are teams like the Lions and Bills that seem mired in mediocracy or worse.

    I haven't lost the faith, but our hopes and dreams are tied to that - faith. Time will tell if it was blind faith or not...

    This is exactly why I feel the comparison is pertinent to the situation at hand.

  15. #960
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    Oh, I agree Shred. And I must admit, my desire to give McKenzie and Co. blind faith has been tempered a bit by a rather dismal performance.

    But I've got more hope, even now, than I did for years and years under Al.

    -Stork

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