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View Poll Results: Who wins?

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  • Buffalo Bills

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  • New England Patriots

    20 95.24%
  • Tie

    1 4.76%
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  1. #271
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    it was frustrating watching Spiller bounce balls to the outside. Jones and Ninc didn't have their best games setting the edge and bottling everything inside.
    Jet's forum Banned 10/23/11

  2. #272
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    I know most won't agree, but I though that the secondary looked good today. Few stupid moves (penalities, blown assignments). They seemed more confident and much harder hitting. It didn't all coalesce today, but the break helped them and it will show as we move along in results.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  3. #273
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    I know most won't agree, but I though that the secondary looked good today. Few stupid moves (penalities, blown assignments). They seemed more confident and much harder hitting. It didn't all coalesce today, but the break helped them and it will show as we move along in results.
    The bigger problem today was poor tackling. We didn't allow Fitzpatrick to kill us down the field, so to a certain extent I agree with you.
    Patriots Forum Hall of Fame Class of 2011


  4. #274
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManRamForPrez24 View Post
    I've been arguing for years that the "bend-but-don't-break" defense is nothing to take solace in. The defense sucks and often needs the other team to bail them out. They bailed us out twice. We can call it clutch, but more often it feels like luck. There is nothing positive about being that porous of a defense. "Bend-but-don't-break" isn't anything you ever game plan to do. It is not a strategy. It's a horrible thing.
    True. I don't like the idea of turnovers saving our hide. For once I'd like to see us making legit defensive plays to win games.

    lol@Spike's twitter response haha

    Quote Originally Posted by BradyIsTheMan12 View Post
    The defense was frustrating to watch, and many times we were our own worst enemy. Very poor tackling allowed Jackson and Spiller to turn modest gains into huge plays, and the Pats usually are technically sound tacklers. We always struggle with the Bills offense, and thankfully the offense was humming along. The offensive line even had injuries with Mankins and Connolly, but that didn't seem to matter.

    I'm hoping that Talib can come in and be a factor immediately, but I'll be patient. He really can't be worse than Arrington, and if he can stick with the number two receiver without safety help, then that will help the defense immensely. I'm not expecting the Pats defense to become great, but if it can get off-the-field on 3rd downs more consistently, then this team is going to be very tough to stop.
    Agreed. The tackling was downright terrible. BB will have plenty to go over with the team this week. If we play that way against the Colts, we're going to lose.

  5. #275
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    Off topic but did anyone here catch the Jets/Hawks game? I know the Jets lost 28-7. The AFC is a freaking mess, and I would put the Pats in there as well. So after today it looks like this

    Pats 6-3 for now if we keep playing the way we are we, aren't going far in the PO's

    Dolphins 4-5? team that I'm afraid of in the AFC east

    Jets 3-6 what a freaking mess

    Bills 3-6 So much money spent and nothing to really show for it.
    20+ years from now I and others will look back @WMXXX and say remember when Brock Beat The Undertaker? More people will remember his only loss more than those 21 Straight wins.

  6. #276
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManRamForPrez24 View Post
    I've been arguing for years that the "bend-but-don't-break" defense is nothing to take solace in. The defense sucks and often needs the other team to bail them out. They bailed us out twice. We can call it clutch, but more often it feels like luck. There is nothing positive about being that porous of a defense. "Bend-but-don't-break" isn't anything you ever game plan to do. It is not a strategy. It's a horrible thing.
    Ok, I'll agree with you that this defense right now isn't good. However, I think you're being overly critical for the sake of being critical. You basically want to credit the opposing team for repeatedly failing rather than giving the Pats credit for repeatedly creating turnovers. There comes a point when a team continually is among the best in creating turnovers, that you have to give that defense a little credit. Or are you going to tell me that for 3 straight years and 41 games, we get lucky each time we force a turnover?

    http://www.pro-football-reference.co...s/2012/opp.htm
    http://www.pro-football-reference.co...s/2011/opp.htm
    http://www.pro-football-reference.co...s/2010/opp.htm

    For the last 3 years (ok well 2.5), the Pats have been 3rd in takeaways this year, 3rd in takeaways in 2011 and 2nd in takeaways in 2010. Cumulatively, in that time period, only the Bears and Giants have forced more takeaways.

    At some point, you have to give the Pats Defense some credit for continuing to force turnovers. It appears that this year is going to be no different from past years- lots of yardage, TDs given up but some turnovers created that hopefully lead to some victories.

    Also, the Pats' defenses traditionally get better in the 2nd half, so lets see how it goes before writing them off. They certainly have more talent this year. In fact, Dennard and McCourty are 2 of the top rated corners in the NFL this year. Going into this game, Dennard was 3rd among all corners in passer rating against (or when the QB throws in his coverage) and McCourty is 20th (out of 103 corners) in passer rating against. They also both rank in the top 7 in catch % (the catch% of receivers when the QB throws in their coverage). QBs are completing 42.9% of passes when throwing to Dennard (which is 4th in the NFL) and QBs are completing 45.9% of passes when throwing to McCourty (which is 7th in the NFL). So we actually appear to have 2 of the top corners in the league on our team this year. What knocks them down a bit is their higher yards per reception but overall, both have been very good.

    This is why I'd like to see Dennard and McCourty remain at CB. Arrington really sucks- he needs to go. Currently rated as the worst corner in the NFL. Thats one issue that hopefully Talib solves. I'd like to see us scrap the zone and play more press coverage.

    The other positive was the pass rush was a bit more active today, though still inconsistent.

    Anyways, this defense has more talent than the last 2 years and both years, they got better as the year went on. We actually have some secondary talent now and with Jones, we have a legit pass rusher as well. Today was also Hightower's first game back. I think we'll definitely see some improvement in the defense going forward and again, I'm just going to point out we're more talented this year on defense than we have been the past 2 years.

    Now if we could get those safety spots sorted out without taking away our best corner, then we'll be looking much better. Hopefully Gregory helps with that and I guess we'll have to just hope that Wilson improves. I still would prefer to see McCourty at CB since he's been our best CB.
    Last edited by PatsSoxKnicks; 11-11-2012 at 11:39 PM.
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  7. #277
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    Quote Originally Posted by Austeezy View Post
    True. I don't like the idea of turnovers saving our hide. For once I'd like to see us making legit defensive plays to win games.

    lol@Spike's twitter response haha
    So repeatedly being among the top 3 teams in forcing turnovers is all luck? Man you guys really hate to give the Pats D credit. It's always the opposing offense screwing up and us getting lucky, even though this has been happening for 2.5 years now. Trends don't matter though, its the other team messing up week in and week out for 2.5 years
    Patriots Forum HOF Class of 2011

  8. #278
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    Maybe it was just me, but I was getting quite excited about Dennard. Yesterday, he seemed quite slow, both feet and reaction wise, and appeared to be out of position a lot. He did break up the potential TD, which was a relief.

  9. #279
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    As others have already stated, the tackling was extremely frustrating.

    Other things that were kind of irritating was the 3 and out when the Patriots recovered the fumble at their own 1 and the goal line possession at the Bills 1 yard line late in the game where a FG was scored instead of a TD.

    A win is a win...but damn.

  10. #280
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    https://www.dropbox.com/s/4o7be9olgs...033_stitch.jpg

    a pano of the my seats at the game. a 10hr round trip to the game yesterday.


    This is why I tend to lurk rather than participate in "discussions"

  11. #281
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    I still don't get it....Y r u guys giving the Pats credit for being tops in the league in takeaways??? In my eyes it is the opposing team screwing up rather than the pats D forcing turnovers. How often do QB have to scramble because of the pressure where they loft it up n the pats get an interception? I really don't think there are many plays. Now strips and forced fumbles is a different story..gotcha, BUT i just feel that opposing Offense get sooo many opportunities on offense that the Pats are bound to make a play......eventually

  12. #282
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    Quote Originally Posted by PatsSoxKnicks View Post
    Ok, I'll agree with you that this defense right now isn't good. However, I think you're being overly critical for the sake of being critical. You basically want to credit the opposing team for repeatedly failing rather than giving the Pats credit for repeatedly creating turnovers. There comes a point when a team continually is among the best in creating turnovers, that you have to give that defense a little credit. Or are you going to tell me that for 3 straight years and 41 games, we get lucky each time we force a turnover?

    http://www.pro-football-reference.co...s/2012/opp.htm
    http://www.pro-football-reference.co...s/2011/opp.htm
    http://www.pro-football-reference.co...s/2010/opp.htm

    For the last 3 years (ok well 2.5), the Pats have been 3rd in takeaways this year, 3rd in takeaways in 2011 and 2nd in takeaways in 2010. Cumulatively, in that time period, only the Bears and Giants have forced more takeaways.

    At some point, you have to give the Pats Defense some credit for continuing to force turnovers. It appears that this year is going to be no different from past years- lots of yardage, TDs given up but some turnovers created that hopefully lead to some victories.

    Also, the Pats' defenses traditionally get better in the 2nd half, so lets see how it goes before writing them off. They certainly have more talent this year. In fact, Dennard and McCourty are 2 of the top rated corners in the NFL this year. Going into this game, Dennard was 3rd among all corners in passer rating against (or when the QB throws in his coverage) and McCourty is 20th (out of 103 corners) in passer rating against. They also both rank in the top 7 in catch % (the catch% of receivers when the QB throws in their coverage). QBs are completing 42.9% of passes when throwing to Dennard (which is 4th in the NFL) and QBs are completing 45.9% of passes when throwing to McCourty (which is 7th in the NFL). So we actually appear to have 2 of the top corners in the league on our team this year. What knocks them down a bit is their higher yards per reception but overall, both have been very good.

    This is why I'd like to see Dennard and McCourty remain at CB. Arrington really sucks- he needs to go. Currently rated as the worst corner in the NFL. Thats one issue that hopefully Talib solves. I'd like to see us scrap the zone and play more press coverage.

    The other positive was the pass rush was a bit more active today, though still inconsistent.

    Anyways, this defense has more talent than the last 2 years and both years, they got better as the year went on. We actually have some secondary talent now and with Jones, we have a legit pass rusher as well. Today was also Hightower's first game back. I think we'll definitely see some improvement in the defense going forward and again, I'm just going to point out we're more talented this year on defense than we have been the past 2 years.

    Now if we could get those safety spots sorted out without taking away our best corner, then we'll be looking much better. Hopefully Gregory helps with that and I guess we'll have to just hope that Wilson improves. I still would prefer to see McCourty at CB since he's been our best CB.
    I'm not NOT giving them credit for their ability to take the ball away. I'm just not comforted by having to constantly rely on it for as long as we have. We've been the best in the AFC for so long at taking the ball away, and indeed that must mean something significant. But from game to game, from play to play, as long as we're bending as much as we are eventually we're going to be screwed. I don't disagree with any of this, I guess I'm just frustrated.


    As for the defense progressing in the second half...you're absolutely right. Bill has always preferred to stick with his guys and place faith in his coaching staff to turn things around. He did go out and make a move, and hopefully it helps. He always tries to have his teams peak around Thanksgiving, and we're getting close to that. The team never doesn't get better I feel like.

    I'm also a bit perturbed because of how awful the LBs looked yesterday. Yes, it was one game and CJ Spiller is a stud, but they looked awful. The run defense has been amazing this year, and while what we say yesterday might not be regression, it does have me thinking that the run defense isn't infallible like I once thought. It has me skeptical. That unit was the only thing I loved about the defense...and it was brutal. It wasn't even just missed tackles, they were getting KILLED in coverage.

    We have a defense that can't get off the field, a secondary that is quite porous and a pass rush that isn't impressive at all. If the LBs play this poorly, well, call me Chicken Little. Mayo, Hightower and Spikes have to play better than that. I think it was flukish, but again, it's the one thing I love about this defense and it's scary to think that they might not be as perfect as I hoped.

    Also, what was the deal with Chandler Jones yesterday?

    I do think it is the most talent-latent defense we've had in years, and I do agree that there's time for them to figure it out AND that there's room to improve...it just is beginning to look like the same old same old.

  13. #283
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoxRTattedOnMe View Post
    I still don't get it....Y r u guys giving the Pats credit for being tops in the league in takeaways??? In my eyes it is the opposing team screwing up rather than the pats D forcing turnovers. How often do QB have to scramble because of the pressure where they loft it up n the pats get an interception? I really don't think there are many plays. Now strips and forced fumbles is a different story..gotcha, BUT i just feel that opposing Offense get sooo many opportunities on offense that the Pats are bound to make a play......eventually
    So the fact that the Pats are tops in the AFC in takeaways since 2010 doesn't mean anything? We're not talking about 5 random games here, we aren't even talking about a full season, we're talking about 41 games. 41 games, where according to you, the opposing team keeps screwing up. Man, the rest of the NFL must really blow then. Always screwing up vs. the Pats. Maybe the Pats put something in their water before the game that makes the opposing players dumber and thats how they get these takeaways. Because obviously the fact that the Pats have led the league in takeaways for the last 41 games means the other team keeps screwing up over and over and over and over again against us. We should completely ignore the fact that they've led the AFC in takeaway's for 3 straight years because trends don't mean anything

    Come on. Look the Pats defense isn't good right now, no one is saying that. They give up tons of yards and if its not a turnover, its pretty much a TD. However, you have to give the Pats defense credit for forcing turnovers. This isn't just a 1 game thing, this has been happening for 2.5 years. It's a trend. And man if you actually watch some of the fumbles they force, they're completely due to bone crushing hits by Spikes. Even Bruschi said it, give the Pats D credit for forcing takeaways.
    Patriots Forum HOF Class of 2011

  14. #284
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManRamForPrez24 View Post
    I'm not NOT giving them credit for their ability to take the ball away. I'm just not comforted by having to constantly rely on it for as long as we have. We've been the best in the AFC for so long at taking the ball away, and indeed that must mean something significant. But from game to game, from play to play, as long as we're bending as much as we are eventually we're going to be screwed. I don't disagree with any of this, I guess I'm just frustrated.


    As for the defense progressing in the second half...you're absolutely right. Bill has always preferred to stick with his guys and place faith in his coaching staff to turn things around. He did go out and make a move, and hopefully it helps. He always tries to have his teams peak around Thanksgiving, and we're getting close to that. The team never doesn't get better I feel like.

    I'm also a bit perturbed because of how awful the LBs looked yesterday. Yes, it was one game and CJ Spiller is a stud, but they looked awful. The run defense has been amazing this year, and while what we say yesterday might not be regression, it does have me thinking that the run defense isn't infallible like I once thought. It has me skeptical. That unit was the only thing I loved about the defense...and it was brutal. It wasn't even just missed tackles, they were getting KILLED in coverage.

    We have a defense that can't get off the field, a secondary that is quite porous and a pass rush that isn't impressive at all. If the LBs play this poorly, well, call me Chicken Little. Mayo, Hightower and Spikes have to play better than that. I think it was flukish, but again, it's the one thing I love about this defense and it's scary to think that they might not be as perfect as I hoped.

    Also, what was the deal with Chandler Jones yesterday?

    I do think it is the most talent-latent defense we've had in years, and I do agree that there's time for them to figure it out AND that there's room to improve...it just is beginning to look like the same old same old.
    Yesterday was a bad game by the defense, I think everyone knows that. The question will be how they respond vs. the Colts. And can the defense get hot and headed in the right direction by the time the playoffs roll around.

    One positive from yesterday was that Wilfork seemed to actually get a push up the middle on some pass rushes yesterday. It's the first time in a long time I can recall him doing that. He needs to become more consistent as a pass rusher IMO. Having that push up the middle can really disrupt a QB and I don't think we get much. I think I'd like to see us draft another end who can play in the middle so we can play that NASCAR type package the Giants run.
    Patriots Forum HOF Class of 2011

  15. #285
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    Quote Originally Posted by PatsSoxKnicks View Post
    Yesterday was a bad game by the defense, I think everyone knows that. The question will be how they respond vs. the Colts. And can the defense get hot and headed in the right direction by the time the playoffs roll around.

    One positive from yesterday was that Wilfork seemed to actually get a push up the middle on some pass rushes yesterday. It's the first time in a long time I can recall him doing that. He needs to become more consistent as a pass rusher IMO. Having that push up the middle can really disrupt a QB and I don't think we get much. I think I'd like to see us draft another end who can play in the middle so we can play that NASCAR type package the Giants run.
    Yup. We'll see how they bounce back. I'm generally not a panicky fan and am generally incredibly patient...but I'm just getting frustrated.

    Indy isn't a stellar offense, but they pose some problems for sure. Hopefully we start trending back in the right direction. They are a pretty solid pass team and Reggie Wayne is a tremendous weapon. How we do on him will be worth watching. Hilton and Avery have been decent big play threats too. Decent rush attack, decent offensive line...they'll be a solid test. I'd love to see us come out and just shut down the run from the get go and go from there.

    Wilfork continues to be a plus every week. Jermaine Cunningham also was a nice surprise. I guess perhaps why we saw less of Jones. I have high expectations for the front 7, hopefully they play a bit better as a whole.

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