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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by SFrush90 View Post
    How? He's a good pitcher and would be a good signing for you guys.
    he is an average pitcher, look at his career numbers in sun life stadium, i will say this, the last 3 years he has been a pretty consistent innings eater, but he won't be worth the money, lilly, cap and harang will all be free agents next year, so why bother locking our selves into a mediocre pitcher when we have 3, if were going to get someone else it should be an upgrade.
    Quote Originally Posted by mquiz16 View Post
    Harang 10-10 3.61
    Capauno 12-12 3.72
    Sanchez 9-13 3.86
    do you really think he is that much of an improvement? Not for the money he will ask for. No way.
    Quote Originally Posted by SFrush90 View Post
    When you judge starting pitchers you throw out W-L records. They're pretty meaningless when comparing.

    Sanchez: 195.2 IP in 31 starts/3.86 ERA/3.53 FIP/3.60 xFIP/3.8 WAR/1.27 WHIP/20.4 K%/5.8 BB%

    Capuano: 198.1 in 33 starts/3.74 ERA/3.95 FIP/3.97 xFIP/2.1 WAR/1.22 WHIP/19.8 K%/6.6 BB%

    Harang: 179.2 in 31 starts/3.61 ERA/4.14 FIP/4.95 xFIP/1.5 WAR/1.40 WHIP/16.7 K%/10.8 BB%

    Cap also came back down to Earth and pitched like he normal in the second half.

    Sanchez would be a good upgrade for you guys over the two, plus he's done well against the Giants in his 5 starts against them.
    5 starts I'm glad were not using a small sample size.

    and he isn't really an upgrade, just a younger version of what we all ready have. James Shields is an upgrade for instance.

  2. #32
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    James Shields will take an incredible over pay, no thanks
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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by ciaban View Post
    he is an average pitcher, look at his career numbers in sun life stadium, i will say this, the last 3 years he has been a pretty consistent innings eater, but he won't be worth the money, lilly, cap and harang will all be free agents next year, so why bother locking our selves into a mediocre pitcher when we have 3, if were going to get someone else it should be an upgrade.



    5 starts I'm glad were not using a small sample size.

    and he isn't really an upgrade, just a younger version of what we all ready have. James Shields is an upgrade for instance.
    He was still a very young pitcher when he came up with the Marlins. When he made his debut he was only 22 and didn't start a full season's worth of games until 2010 which was a good year. He's a good pitcher. The stats I provided prove that. He will be an upgrade over Capuano and Harang. If the Dodgers sign him they'll have a better rotation. I don't know what kind of contract he's looking for, but based on talent he's better than those two.

    I was just noting his success against the Giants. It's not like I'm saying that's what he'll do against them if he signs with you guys, give me a break.


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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by LASportsFan1996 View Post
    James Shields will take an incredible over pay, no thanks

    Agreed. Be would do his typical sell the farm routine for this one..no thanks.

    What do you think Haren would cost?


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    Quote Originally Posted by spliff(TONE) View Post
    Dodgers rule.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scully in 2012 View Post
    Agreed. Be would do his typical sell the farm routine for this one..no thanks.

    What do you think Haren would cost?
    id give Haren 3 years for 40 mil, thats 13.3 million a year

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  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by numba1CHANGsta View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Scully in 2012 View Post
    Agreed. Be would do his typical sell the farm routine for this one..no thanks.

    What do you think Haren would cost?
    id give Haren 3 years for 40 mil, thats 13.3 million a year
    .

    I'd jump on that deal.


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    Quote Originally Posted by spliff(TONE) View Post
    Dodgers rule.

  7. #37
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    It's pretty scary looking whats out there. Players are going to be looking for us to overpay too. Who would get reasonable contracts? I think Sanchez would do well here, however I think he's going to get PAID because of his performance in the playoffs. Haren might be cheaper but has lost velocity and has a back problem. Could be Schmidt part 2. I think Loshe is going to get way overpaid too, but would also do well there. I would be fine with any of those 3 but I think with the money they will get they are low reward high risk players even for us.

    I honestly think it makes sense to throw the money at Greinke. I think there is a good chance that all free agents wait to see what the Dodgers do before signing. The Dodgers have a different market so why not wait? With the risk that other top pitchers have I think Grienke makes sense. I'd rather sign Grienke and keep Capuano, Harang and Lilly for this year and let all that money comes off the books. If I could have 2 of Sanchez, Loshe or Haren for 3-5 years, 13-15 mil each or Grienke for 6-7 years at $23-25, I actually think Grienke makes a lot more sense and is less of a risk.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cracka2HI! View Post
    It's pretty scary looking whats out there. Players are going to be looking for us to overpay too. Who would get reasonable contracts? I think Sanchez would do well here, however I think he's going to get PAID because of his performance in the playoffs. Haren might be cheaper but has lost velocity and has a back problem. Could be Schmidt part 2. I think Loshe is going to get way overpaid too, but would also do well there. I would be fine with any of those 3 but I think with the money they will get they are low reward high risk players even for us.

    I honestly think it makes sense to throw the money at Greinke. I think there is a good chance that all free agents wait to see what the Dodgers do before signing. The Dodgers have a different market so why not wait? With the risk that other top pitchers have I think Grienke makes sense. I'd rather sign Grienke and keep Capuano, Harang and Lilly for this year and let all that money comes off the books. If I could have 2 of Sanchez, Loshe or Haren for 3-5 years, 13-15 mil each or Grienke for 6-7 years at $23-25, I actually think Grienke makes a lot more sense and is less of a risk.


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  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by SFrush90 View Post
    He was still a very young pitcher when he came up with the Marlins. When he made his debut he was only 22 and didn't start a full season's worth of games until 2010 which was a good year. He's a good pitcher. The stats I provided prove that. He will be an upgrade over Capuano and Harang. If the Dodgers sign him they'll have a better rotation. I don't know what kind of contract he's looking for, but based on talent he's better than those two.

    I was just noting his success against the Giants. It's not like I'm saying that's what he'll do against them if he signs with you guys, give me a break.
    the stats you provided were for just last year, he is an above average pitcher, but we have those and we are almost done with them, i don't want to sign a guy who could get in the way of a good young pitcher like Zach Lee, or prevent us from signing a better pitcher in free agency later, such as Mat Latos, as it stands our future rotation looks like, i don't want to over pay for an above average pitcher, i don't think he adds much to this team.

    So what if he is better than Cap and Harang we only have to have them for 1 more year and they will be much cheaper. So why lock into an above average pitcher?

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by ciaban View Post
    the stats you provided were for just last year, he is an above average pitcher, but we have those and we are almost done with them, i don't want to sign a guy who could get in the way of a good young pitcher like Zach Lee, or prevent us from signing a better pitcher in free agency later, such as Mat Latos, as it stands our future rotation looks like, i don't want to over pay for an above average pitcher, i don't think he adds much to this team.

    So what if he is better than Cap and Harang we only have to have them for 1 more year and they will be much cheaper. So why lock into an above average pitcher?
    In your first post you called Sanchez "average" and now you call him "above-average". Did you realize that he's better than you initially thought? Just asking.

    You're right, I did only provide this year stats. I thought I posted others as well.

    2010 was Sanchez's first full year starting.

    2010: 3.55 ERA/3.32 FIP/4.04 xFIP/4.4 WAR/1.34 WHIP/ 7.25 K/9 and 3.23 BB/9

    2011: 3.67 ERA/3.35 FIP/3.25 xFIP/3.8 WAR/1.28 WHIP/ 9.26 K/9 and 2.93 BB/9

    2012: 3.86 ERA/3.53 FIP/3.60 xFIP/3.8 WAR/1.27 WHIP/ 7.68 K/9 and 2.21 BB/9

    His walk rate and WHIP keep decreasing (in a good way) every year. I never use WAR as the end all stat, but just based on that stat he's categorized as a "Solid Starter". I'd consider him a lower-tier #2 starter and a very good #3 starter. Whether you want to admit it or not, he would be a good upgrade based on talent over Capuano and Harang because they are not above average pitchers. But like I said in my first post, I don't know what he's looking for so who knows if the upgrade is worth it.
    Last edited by SFrush90; 11-07-2012 at 12:53 PM.


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  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krush View Post
    I prefer Sanchez over Lohse because he's younger and not a one year wonder.
    Really lohse a one year wonder??? Really This year he was awesome but last year he had a 3.39 era with 14 wins, he was hurt but in 2009 70 sum thing innings, he pitched a 4.74 with a complete game and a shutout in less innings 2008 he won 15 games with a 3.78 era, he had a 4.62 in 2007 with 2 complete games and a shut out sanchez while younger only has 3 years of 190+ innings, Oh and sanchez did lose against the giants in the ws this year sooooooo?
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  12. #42
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    First of all Lohse is not a one year wonder.

    Grienke, Sanchez, Lohse, Kuroda and Haren are all upgrades compared Cap and Harang. We would be lucky to have any of them. Kuroda will likely go to the Yankees. Sanchez and Haren will wait to see what kind of contract Grienke gets and then move from there.


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    Quote Originally Posted by spliff(TONE) View Post
    Dodgers rule.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by SFrush90 View Post
    In your first post you called Sanchez "average" and now you call him "above-average". Did you realize that he's better than you initially thought? Just asking.

    You're right, I did only provide this year stats. I thought I posted others as well.

    2010 was Sanchez's first full year starting.

    2010: 3.55 ERA/3.32 FIP/4.04 xFIP/4.4 WAR/1.34 WHIP/ 7.25 K/9 and 3.23 BB/9

    2011: 3.67 ERA/3.35 FIP/3.25 xFIP/3.8 WAR/1.28 WHIP/ 9.26 K/9 and 2.93 BB/9

    2012: 3.86 ERA/3.53 FIP/3.60 xFIP/3.8 WAR/1.27 WHIP/ 7.68 K/9 and 2.21 BB/9

    His walk rate and WHIP keep decreasing (in a good way) every year. I never use WAR as the end all stat, but just based on that stat he's categorized as a "Solid Starter". I'd consider him a lower-tier #2 starter and a very good #3 starter. Whether you want to admit it or not, he would be a good upgrade based on talent over Capuano and Harang because they are not above average pitchers. But like I said in my first post, I don't know what he's looking for so who knows if the upgrade is worth it.
    yes i did realize he is better than my initial opinion, but i don't see him as a lower tier #2, he is a solid inning eating #3, who due to the lack of quality starters on the market, and 3 good starts he had in Oct. will be overpaid by someone. I hope that's not us.

    I guess for me i have a hard time falling in love with his ERA or xFIP, i will admit that i like his BB/9 and the trend it's been going, though i doubt he can get it substantially lower.

    What Cap and Harang did this year is what they kind of always have done, so i have no problem with it, especially considering their pay and short contracts.
    Last edited by ciaban; 11-07-2012 at 06:37 PM.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scully in 2012 View Post
    First of all Lohse is not a one year wonder.

    Grienke, Sanchez, Lohse, Kuroda and Haren are all upgrades compared Cap and Harang. We would be lucky to have any of them. Kuroda will likely go to the Yankees. Sanchez and Haren will wait to see what kind of contract Grienke gets and then move from there.
    Yep I Agree
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  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by ciaban View Post
    What Cap and Harang did this year is what they kind of always have done, so i have no problem with it, especially considering their pay and short contracts.
    Capuano started off well and had a good first half, but looked like the Capuano of old in the second half. Harang on the other hand did look like himself this year, however, which isn't that great since he's really only a back end starter, which Capuano is too, and had a career high BB/9 (4.26). I would try to trade Harang since he's the weakest of the two and sign two others arms if the price is within reason to bolster your rotation.


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