Alternatives to Ponder at QB

[FrankieFreakout]

Right my point is if ponder isn't the guy then a veteran doesn't help us. I am in no way calling for us to give up on ponder, but if Joe webb is our contingency plan again for next year that worries me. Absolutely ponder will go into the year as the starter and he should, but he hasn't proven enough as a second year QB that I would be comfortable not having a competent back up on the roster

If Ponder struggles next year, wouldn't you rather have a vet ready to come in instead of a rookie or a 2-3 year guy who hasn't played?

Come on, this isn't that hard to understand.

[foofighter97]

Why would we acquire a guy who's never played? When did I ever say that? I'm talking about getting a Brady Quinn, matt Moore, nick foles rather than a Sage rosenfels like the vikes did this off-season.

[FrankieFreakout]

Why would we acquire a guy who's never played? When did I ever say that? I'm talking about getting a Brady Quinn, matt Moore, nick foles rather than a Sage rosenfels like the vikes did this off-season.

Quinn and Moore are considered vets.

Guys like Foles are going to require giving up assets. You don't give up assets for a back up.

[iowavike]

In a way my fears have been realized. This team as I suspected is still really good. We're a playoff caliber team. As I've said we're just a great QB away from being a superbowl quality team. A healthy Percy or another WR included.
Christian is our starting QB for the next 2 years. Lets hope he can be that missing link QB. Most of this team is good enough in their positions to be a superbowl team. It's probally not fair to Ponder to expect him to be that good yet.
There are only a half a dozen really special QB's in the league at any givin time. I've been waiting 40 years to have one here. Fran was the only one close to it. But even Fran could'nt get the ring.
That's why I give huge props to Daniel Synder to move up and take RG3. These special QB's are like hens teeth to get. I knew that Luck and RG3 would be really good. All the rest I wasn't sure. That goes for Ponder draft class and this years as well.
There's alot of high paid people making these picks that don't know anymore than us here.

[FrankieFreakout]

It's kind of funny that 3 weeks ago everyone didn't think the Vikings were worth anything, and now were talking about them as a super bowl team? If you get in, anything can happen, I get that, but this team isn't a SB team.

[100%CHEESE FREE]

Quinn and Moore are considered vets.

Guys like Foles are going to require giving up assets. You don't give up assets for a back up.

Neither Quinn nor Moore are particularly good QBs, I'm not as down on Moore, Quinn would be barely serviceable, never want to see him in purple.

Todd Collins was a vet too, ask the Bears how that worked out. With Foles (or anyone else we acquire) we wouldn't necessarily be trading for a backup, we could be trading for someone to compete to start. If he wins, he starts, if he looses he's a backup, either way we have a better QB at #2 than we do now, and greater stability at the position.

I would rather trade a 4th or 5th rounder (asset, singular) for Foles (which is only going to happen if the Eagles go in a different direction, like Chip Kelly, and want to move him, I would be quite firm about not spending more than that) vs spending a 2nd round pick on Alex Smith or a 3rd on Fitzpatrick, either of which could end up being backups themselves, look at what happened with Matt Flynn.

The goal here should be not just "get a veteran QB" or "get somebody to replace Ponder." but to "get the best QB possible at the most reasonable price possible." if that means spending a late round draft pick then so be it.

[jojo30]

Kyle Orton would lead us to the promise land.

[FrankieFreakout]

Neither Quinn nor Moore are particularly good QBs, I'm not as down on Moore, Quinn would be barely serviceable, never want to see him in purple.

Todd Collins was a vet too, ask the Bears how that worked out. With Foles (or anyone else we acquire) we wouldn't necessarily be trading for a backup, we could be trading for someone to compete to start. If he wins, he starts, if he looses he's a backup, either way we have a better QB at #2 than we do now, and greater stability at the position.

I would rather trade a 4th or 5th rounder (asset, singular) for Foles (which is only going to happen if the Eagles go in a different direction, like Chip Kelly, and want to move him, I would be quite firm about not spending more than that) vs spending a 2nd round pick on Alex Smith or a 3rd on Fitzpatrick, either of which could end up being backups themselves, look at what happened with Matt Flynn. The goal here should be not just "get a veteran QB" or "get somebody to replace Ponder." but to "get the best QB possible at the most reasonable price possible." if that means spending a late round draft pick then so be it.

That's not sound thinking. You don't give up draft picks (when you're technically still adding young talent to this nucleus) for a back up, and not even a good one at that.

For the record, I'm not a Quinn fan, at all.

[vikingsfan0845]

Neither Quinn nor Moore are particularly good QBs, I'm not as down on Moore, Quinn would be barely serviceable, never want to see him in purple.

Todd Collins was a vet too, ask the Bears how that worked out. With Foles (or anyone else we acquire) we wouldn't necessarily be trading for a backup, we could be trading for someone to compete to start. If he wins, he starts, if he looses he's a backup, either way we have a better QB at #2 than we do now, and greater stability at the position.

I would rather trade a 4th or 5th rounder (asset, singular) for Foles (which is only going to happen if the Eagles go in a different direction, like Chip Kelly, and want to move him, I would be quite firm about not spending more than that) vs spending a 2nd round pick on Alex Smith or a 3rd on Fitzpatrick, either of which could end up being backups themselves, look at what happened with Matt Flynn.

The goal here should be not just "get a veteran QB" or "get somebody to replace Ponder." but to "get the best QB possible at the most reasonable price possible." if that means spending a late round draft pick then so be it.

No way do I give up a 4th or 5th rounder for a back up QB when we can sign somebody who could probably do a better job.

[100%CHEESE FREE]

That's not sound thinking. You don't give up draft picks (when you're technically still adding young talent to this nucleus) for a back up, and not even a good one at that.

For the record, I'm not a Quinn fan, at all.

So Nick Foles isn't young talent? Lets here more about who you think our backup QB should be, or do you even have any idea?

No way do I give up a 4th or 5th rounder for a back up QB when we can sign somebody who could probably do a better job.

Who is going to do a better job? The free agency QBs really suck this year! Matt Moore and Jason Campbell, basically the only things they have done is play themselves out of starting roles. Campbell looked really bad in Chicago this year when Cutler went down. Moore is not much better and debatably worse if you look at his career numbers.

Lets look at some other names (and when we do, its really not hard to see why young QBs are getting so popular)

Drew Stanton (I say the Colts are probably going to re-sign him, even then he only has one good game on his resume.)
Bruce Gradkowski (popgun arm, probably weaker than Ponder's at this point, doubt he leaves cincy)
Brady Quinn (needs no introduction)
Chase Daniel (has looked good in the pre-season but has made 9 career passes over 4 years in real NFL games)
Tyler Thigpen (horrible, just horrible)
Tarvaris Jackson (yep I went there, this is how bad the FA crop is this year, sadder still that he's been 3rd string all year)
Derek Anderson (1 good year in Cleveland 6 years ago, garbage ever since)
Luke McCown (currently 3rd string, behind rookie Dominique Davis)
Byron Leftwhich (windmill windup, and old at 33)
Matt Leinart (played poorly for the Raiders and has been passed over by Pryor, a guy who lots of people thought shouldn't be a QB)
David Carr (hot wet garbage)
Rex Grossman (irredeemably bad, now 3rd string behind Kirk Cousins)
Vince Young (couldn't stick in Buffalo, was awful in Philly and was walking the streets this season)
David Garrard (unemployed this year and turning 35)
Kellen Clemens (I think the Rams will keep him)
Dan Orlovsky (remember when Jared Allen chased him out of the back of the endzone, when asked about it later he said it was because he was an idiot)
J.P. Wilson (0 real game experience, bounced around practice squads and 3rd string in Atlanta)
A.J. Feely (old and washed up)
Troy Smith (was in the UFL until it folded)
Sage Rosenfels (I like him but he's 35 and we already ran him out of town twice)
Chris Redman (even older than Rosenfels)
Seneca Wallace (could probably be a useful mentor but probably too old)
John Beck (even his biggest supporters the Shanahans put the run on him)

Most of them are god awful (how bad is it when T-Jack is one of the best), where is this mysterious backup who will play good off the bench and provide that veteran influence? If he's on this list you sure fooled the hell out of me. The best of these guys after Moore and Campbell (sadly Daniel, Stanton and Gradkowski) will probably be retained by the teams they are with now. If any of the rest of them have to take a single snap for us next year, its time to turn the game off and hide the remote, because you sure don't want to see what's going to happen next.

The other thing that should be taken into account is that out of this whole list, as far as I can tell there are two guys who have ever been coached by Musgrave before, JP Wilson and Byron Leftwhich, (and I really don't think that Musgrave was running the same offense in Jacksonville back then). While its not going to be alien, Musgrave basically runs his own offensive scheme with influences from the WCO and the Patriots system (Erhardt-Perkins, which is where he gets the verbiage). Most of these guys, experienced or not are going to have some learning ahead if we make the unfortunate decision of letting them play here, in some cases almost as much as Foles would.

I consider myself to be one of Ponder's biggest supporters, but I reject the notion that doing anything other than saying "Chrisitan is our guy" will wreck his confidence. If this is anywhere's even near true we should already be looking for a new QB. I'm in agreement with everything that was done so far this year as far as not benching him so far, there are parts of the offense that are really letting him down (poor blocking on the interior offensive line, putrid wide receivers) so we should not be quitting on him because of that (I think keeping him in has a lot more to do with what our coaches think of Joe Webb).

However, moving forward we can't be putting him ahead of the rest of the football team, and that's exactly what we will be doing if we don't bench him if he has more bad games next season. I don't see how signing one of these guys would do anything other than make us keep Ponder on the field no matter what. We can't afford for him to turn into the NFC's Mark Sanchez.

Another thing about Matt Moore, our OL coach (Jeff Davidson) was his OC in Carolina. Obviously you can't think he'd have a lot of influence in weather he gets hired or not, but I think he's certainly someone Spielman would talk to about Moore.

Nick Foles is better than at least 90% of the guys on that list and he's still young and improving, in the next three seasons that he'd be on this team he'd at least be one of the better backup QBs in the league and has the potential to have a much higher ceiling than that. You can't say the same for anybody on this list, most of whom will be out of the league by then (or much sooner).

[FrankieFreakout]

You're also going to be giving up a significant draft pick.

Who says Philly even trades him? I'm not a fan.

[vikingsfan0845]

I hate that it happened this way but I hope all the people who wanted Joe Webb to play this season are happy. He couldn't hit the broad side of barn and he should not be playing quarterback. We will have a new back up QB next season.

[bigvikingfan]

I hate that it happened this way but I hope all the people who wanted Joe Webb to play this season are happy. He couldn't hit the broad side of barn and he should not be playing quarterback. We will have a new back up QB next season.

I hope so.

[willoull]

Yeah it's kind of ironic that everybody wanted ponder out and Webb in and they all got what they wanted

[vikingsfan0845]

Yeah it's kind of ironic that everybody wanted ponder out and Webb in and they all got what they wanted

Yup it's very ironic that the season ends with Vikings fans wishing Ponder would of played.