Alternatives to Ponder at QB

[100%CHEESE FREE]

Carson Palmer? Gasp....What a great idea...I had no idea he would be available. They want a third for him? What?????

Who thought of this or where does it come from. Palmer is exactly what we need. You could trade a 3rd for Palmer and keep Ponder here to have them "compete". It would be the easiest way for the Vikings to say we screwed up the 12 pick in 2010.

Palmer has always completed 60% of his passes, had a decent ypa, has always had a QB rating above 80. Palmer will consistently give us 200-300 yards in the air. If we can run the ball next year like we did this year or better, Palmer would be a supremely good QB here.

Palmer off the AD PA. And lets remember that we will have fresh legs at WR next year. Maybe we could get DHB in the deal...

I wondered if the Ponder supporters believe we are a team a QB away from the SB? I've believed that ever since AD's rookie year. That could be a big difference between the supporters and the non believers.

Yes I think it could and its time to shine some light on this.

Have you seen any of Palmer's games this year, or more specifically since he put on a Raiders Jersey?

Carson Palmer - QB - Raiders

Carson Palmer took advantage of his weekly allotment of garbage time and completed 19-of-30 passes for 273 yards, two touchdowns, and one interception in Oakland's Week 14, 26-13 loss to the Broncos.
Palmer has become the king of garbage time efforts in the NFL this season, and it comes after he turns the ball over to put his team in deep holes that aren't able to be climbed out of. His third-quarter fumble at his own two-yard line helped set up Knowshon Moreno's score to put the game squarely out of reach. Palmer answered back to pad the stats, though, by finding Darrius Heyward-Bey for a 56-yard catch-and-run touchdown with just over five minutes left in the game. The Raiders host the Chiefs in a battle of AFC West basement-dwellers in Week 15

rotoworld

This is why there's a lot of talk that Oakland is going to get rid of him (and possibly his HC) and why they want to see Terrell Pryor play. The talk of a 3rd round pick is just talk on the forum, nothing news related, but obviously the Raiders would try get something for him before they'd just cut him. Also he has no guaranteed money left on his contract, although this could actually drive his cost up as far as compensation goes (as long as they don't renegotiate his contract any team that picks him up can just cut him whenever). Palmer's not exactly around a group of all-stars there either but at this rate I'd expect him to play more like Gus Frerotte than Brett Favre. I can see how some of you can look at stats and say "Oh, he's a great QB!" but you're clearly not putting those stats in perspective.

Also, there's something to be said for Ponder's stats relative to the good games he's played. If you didn't know this already, we're a running team, we run the ball with AP and our passing game is only complementary. Those stat lines are very similar to the victories Alex Smith won in 2011, and their offense went through Gore almost as much as ours goes through AP. To sum it up, I'll take a game where Ponder throws for 200 yards and wins vs one where Carson Palmer throws for over 350 (mostly in garbage time) and loses.

That's one thing that people like you that really don't like Ponder need to get over. You think Ponder is a bad QB and is bad for this team. I think that a lot of QBs in this league would play badly if they were on this team, including Carson Palmer. This doesn't exonerate Ponder from the mistakes that he's made so far but it does speak towards the fact that we are not a Super Bowl team just waiting for a QB, there are so many things wrong with that statement I can't even begin to access them here. We have starting wide receivers who are not as good as 3rd string guys on most teams and may not even be playing football if they weren't on our team, but if Palmer was here we'd instantly be contenders for the Super Bowl!?

I'll certainly admit that Palmer right now is a better QB than Ponder, that's not even an argument, however parting with draft picks is, especially when Palmer's not half as good as you guys make him out to be. I wouldn't mind Palmer at all in free agency, however we should not be comparing him to Favre/expecting the same thing.

[ApolloInfinity]

Yes I think it could and its time to shine some light on this.

Have you seen any of Palmer's games this year, or more specifically since he put on a Raiders Jersey?

Carson Palmer - QB - Raiders

rotoworld

This is why there's a lot of talk that Oakland is going to get rid of him (and possibly his HC) and why they want to see Terrell Pryor play. The talk of a 3rd round pick is just talk on the forum, nothing news related, but obviously the Raiders would try get something for him before they'd just cut him. Also he has no guaranteed money left on his contract, although this could actually drive his cost up as far as compensation goes (as long as they don't renegotiate his contract any team that picks him up can just cut him whenever). Palmer's not exactly around a group of all-stars there either but at this rate I'd expect him to play more like Gus Frerotte than Brett Favre. I can see how some of you can look at stats and say "Oh, he's a great QB!" but you're clearly not putting those stats in perspective.

Also, there's something to be said for Ponder's stats relative to the good games he's played. If you didn't know this already, we're a running team, we run the ball with AP and our passing game is only complementary. Those stat lines are very similar to the victories Alex Smith won in 2011, and their offense went through Gore almost as much as ours goes through AP. To sum it up, I'll take a game where Ponder throws for 200 yards and wins vs one where Carson Palmer throws for over 350 (mostly in garbage time) and loses.

That's one thing that people like you that really don't like Ponder need to get over. You think Ponder is a bad QB and is bad for this team. I think that a lot of QBs in this league would play badly if they were on this team, including Carson Palmer. This doesn't exonerate Ponder from the mistakes that he's made so far but it does speak towards the fact that we are not a Super Bowl team just waiting for a QB, there are so many things wrong with that statement I can't even begin to access them here. We have starting wide receivers who are not as good as 3rd string guys on most teams and may not even be playing football if they weren't on our team, but if Palmer was here we'd instantly be contenders for the Super Bowl!?

I'll certainly admit that Palmer right now is a better QB than Ponder, that's not even an argument, however parting with draft picks is, especially when Palmer's not half as good as you guys make him out to be. I wouldn't mind Palmer at all in free agency, however we should not be comparing him to Favre/expecting the same thing.

I know the WR are bad, I said Carson would do well here with fresh legs at WR. Im thinking in terms of next season, you know, when he'd be here.

I think you've taken our bad WR's a little far. The argument is usually made by excluding Harvin, but he is a WR on this team, so I don't consider that valid.

-In 2010 and 2011 New England's WR's were pathetic, and Brady produced.
-Last year Curtis Painter's WR's were worse then ours, are you saying that Painter would turn out had he better WR's?
-Colt McCoy never had as good as weapon as Harvin, AD or a TE as good as Rudolph, but you probably believe he sucks..
-You'd probably have no problem saying Gabbert isn't a good QB and he had better WR's then Ponder. That blows up your argument.
-Does Cam Newton have great WR's, No. He has no running game and only S. Smith who is very similar to Harvin.
-Last year TJack had less weapons then Ponder does, and he had a better season.

I know exactly the kind of QB Palmer is...I don't go based off stats...and I've read every clip Rotoworld has put out on the guy....

Look, You seem to want to pigeon hole QB's for no reason. You wouldn't say T. Brady wouldn't be good here because he's a vert. passer. But you think Palmer and Rivers won't fit for the same reason.

We don't really know what our system is except that every pass gets thrown within 5 yards of the line of scrimmage. That's not a WC offense, because the WC offense uses the running game and short throws to set up the long PA throw's. We just run the ball and throw short because that's all Ponder is capable of...

A big reason I want a better QB is because the PA passes should be working, and they have been. With a better QB, like Palmer, when AD is running down peoples throats Palmer or Rivers will tear teams apart because of the LB and S attention Peterson gets.

I think Palmer could be a game manager, he'd find Harvin all over the field but mostly in the short game, he gets the ball to his TE, see B. Myers. Lets remember that Oakland has a terrible O line and a terrible D. Palmer has made the most of guys like D. Moore, DHB and J. Ford.

Look at that game in GB, can you honestly tell me you think we would have lost that game with Palmer under center?

[ApolloInfinity]

I was also reading a clip on Rotoworld about how the Browns owner doesn't believe in Weeden. Then I relized, it doesn't matter what anybody thinks about Ponder except Z. Wilf. I'm going to take a stab in the dark and suggest Wilf does not believe in him, because if he did he'd do so publicly.

The Vikings are getting a new stadium, Wilf is probably going to fire everybody if we lose out because he doesn't believe in Ponder.

I am hoping for A. Reid. You guys like screens, well he's the master of them. He's also got a knack for finding WR talent outside of Rd 1. O, and he's developed a few decent QB's.

[100%CHEESE FREE]

I know the WR are bad, I said Carson would do well here with fresh legs at WR. Im thinking in terms of next season, you know, when he'd be here.

I think you've taken our bad WR's a little far. The argument is usually made by excluding Harvin, but he is a WR on this team, so I don't consider that valid.

-In 2010 and 2011 New England's WR's were pathetic, and Brady produced.
-Last year Curtis Painter's WR's were worse then ours, are you saying that Painter would turn out had he better WR's?
-Colt McCoy never had as good as weapon as Harvin, AD or a TE as good as Rudolph, but you probably believe he sucks..
-You'd probably have no problem saying Gabbert isn't a good QB and he had better WR's then Ponder. That blows up your argument.
-Does Cam Newton have great WR's, No. He has no running game and only S. Smith who is very similar to Harvin.
-Last year TJack had less weapons then Ponder does, and he had a better season.

I know exactly the kind of QB Palmer is...I don't go based off stats...and I've read every clip Rotoworld has put out on the guy....

Look, You seem to want to pigeon hole QB's for no reason. You wouldn't say T. Brady wouldn't be good here because he's a vert. passer. But you think Palmer and Rivers won't fit for the same reason.

We don't really know what our system is except that every pass gets thrown within 5 yards of the line of scrimmage. That's not a WC offense, because the WC offense uses the running game and short throws to set up the long PA throw's. We just run the ball and throw short because that's all Ponder is capable of...

A big reason I want a better QB is because the PA passes should be working, and they have been. With a better QB, like Palmer, when AD is running down peoples throats Palmer or Rivers will tear teams apart because of the LB and S attention Peterson gets.

I think Palmer could be a game manager, he'd find Harvin all over the field but mostly in the short game, he gets the ball to his TE, see B. Myers. Lets remember that Oakland has a terrible O line and a terrible D. Palmer has made the most of guys like D. Moore, DHB and J. Ford.

Look at that game in GB, can you honestly tell me you think we would have lost that game with Palmer under center?

You admit our WRs are bad but you then say its not valid to exclude Harvin to talk about our other starters. Harvin rarely lines up on the outside and is also rarely used for anything down the field. Just recently the cumulative yardage of all the other WRs put together surpassed Harvin's yardage. That's right Harvin (who hasn't played in the last two games) had more yards than every other WR combined up until last week and was responsible for 30% of our total offense, but our other WRs underperformance has nothing to do with this. Ponder just threw to Percy all the time because he liked him better, not because he was not just the only play maker among them but the only one who could RELIABLY CATCH THE F*&%ING FOOTBALL! Our WR situation is a lot worse than bad.

-You go on and compare our 2nd year QB who is still trying to learn and develop to Tom Brady, the best guy to play the position since Joe Montana. That's fair, by this point in his career Ponder should be able to do all of the same things that Tom Brady can.

-What you're saying about Curtis Painter makes no sense at all, unless you're claiming that our WRs are better than Pierre Garcon and Reggie Wayne, in which case I award you no points and may god have mercy on your soul.

-As for the Carolina Panthers, Newton has Brandon LaFell and Louis Murphy, both are guys who would be an upgrade on this roster. Smith, LaFell, Murphy > Harvin, Jenkins and Simpson (not to mention that Steve Smith is more of a down-field presence than Percy)

-Please don't presume to tell me what I think about Colt McCoy. There's reports now that the franchise isn't happy with Brandon Weeden either so its quite possible that the Browns could have been better off sticking with McCoy. This is one of the reason I want to see the Vikings stick to their guns and stay behind Ponder, at least they have the balls to see it through.

-Gabbert didn't play well with WRs better than ours so Ponder won't either, so that's why we should go out and get a QB who can make our WRs great, Got it.

-Last but not least, T-Jack. First I want to say that I did not want to see Ponder on the field in 2011 after he didn't win the starting job. The offense was just too much of a mess for me to be confident about what Ponder could learn and accomplish. It turns out he did better than a lot of us though, however it was a far from opportune setting for him to start playing. T-Jack had hardships too but lets not forget that he'd spent the past 5 years in pretty much the exact same system, which followed him to Seattle in the form of OC Darrel Bevell. He didn't have no weapons either, he had a gimpy Rice for the first 9 games, which is still an upgrade on Michael Jenkins.

What really gets to me after being on here for so long is the bias that people have had against Ponder from day 1. What I want to see is what will happen next year if we have Ponder lined up to throw to a Z WR who isn't slow as **** (molases mike) or an X that can consistently catch the ball, and not just let it hit him in the numbers and bounce off his hands all stupid like(jerome simpson). Devin Aromashadon't is far from perfect himself but at this point he really should be seeing more play-time just because he's faster than Jenkins. Last but not lest we can't forget Stephen Burton, and his phobia of football shaped objects.

I think under these improved conditions Christian Ponder will be able to play BETTER football than he has been lately. I know this is a remarkably bold assumption to make on my part but I will make it nonetheless. The cherry on top is that you want new WRs for Palmer too.

Lastly I will leave you with this. I've also never said that Ponder NEEDS STUD WRs to make him look good. There is a very wide gulf between who we're putting out there on the field now and a Stud WR. We need to get better WRs if we expect our passing game to get better because what we're fielding now is substandard.

[100%CHEESE FREE]

I was also reading a clip on Rotoworld about how the Browns owner doesn't believe in Weeden. Then I relized, it doesn't matter what anybody thinks about Ponder except Z. Wilf. I'm going to take a stab in the dark and suggest Wilf does not believe in him, because if he did he'd do so publicly.

The Vikings are getting a new stadium, Wilf is probably going to fire everybody if we lose out because he doesn't believe in Ponder.

I am hoping for A. Reid. You guys like screens, well he's the master of them. He's also got a knack for finding WR talent outside of Rd 1. O, and he's developed a few decent QB's.

Wilf has never been one to meddle with this team, and I doubt very much he fires anybody. The only person he'd be firing is Spielman, and while there are some questions about what his contract situation is (weather this year was a lame-duck year for him or weather he has a secret extension already worked out).

I don't remember him saying squat about T-Jack but we kept him for all of those years. Zygi Wilf knows better than to try to make big personnel decisions for the team. He's delegated that authority to guys he pays millions of dollars, and rightfully so. He's too smart to try to think he can tell them how to do their jobs.

[Coenthar]

I wish Ponder was showing progress but even with the ***** show surrounding him with our Horrible OC, Interior Line, and WRs he isn't looking like he is panning out. He isn't even seeing open WRs anymore at all when he rolls out. I say we take a shot at Rivers or Palmer and lets give Ponder some time and make him really think if he wants it or not. Cause he has it,,,I strongly believe he does just not right now.

[wrizzo]

I wish Ponder was showing progress but even with the ***** show surrounding him with our Horrible OC, Interior Line, and WRs he isn't looking like he is panning out. He isn't even seeing open WRs anymore at all when he rolls out. I say we take a shot at Rivers or Palmer and lets give Ponder some time and make him really think if he wants it or not. Cause he has it,,,I strongly believe he does just not right now.

is Rivers believed to be on the market next year? if we could get him i would be behind that 100%!!! he is 31... so you figure he would have about the same amount of quality years left as AP. he was so good when he had LT... perfect match.

[pacofunk64]

Thank god some of you don't run a football team. Carson Palmer would not be a good fit for a young rebuilding team. Sure if we were just a QB away from seriously competing for a SB like we were a few years back.

[Coenthar]

Thank god some of you don't run a football team. Carson Palmer would not be a good fit for a young rebuilding team. Sure if we were just a QB away from seriously competing for a SB like we were a few years back.

We are a good QB away from being a very good team, all of our losses were QB play away from winning this season. Plus AP is busting off 200 yard games with everybody in the galaxy knowing we are rushing, why cant you wrap your head around the thought of him with having a true productive passing game to work with. There isn't any rules you follow in the NFL on how to win a SB, there is what works for your team, and once again we are Good QB play away from being on top of the NFC North,,,,man I am glad you aren't running the team, to be honest. You give Palmer who is second in the league in passing yards, just under Manning by 7 yards, with our team and watch out. Even with our OC, G's, and WRs....Yea it is once again a HORRIBLE IDEA to want the second passing yards leading QB in the game right now because he doesn't fit your little mold.

[VCU4LIFEGOVIKS]

We are a good QB away from being a very good team, all of our losses were QB play away from winning this season. Plus AP is busting off 200 yard games with everybody in the galaxy knowing we are rushing, why cant you wrap your head around the thought of him with having a true productive passing game to work with. There isn't any rules you follow in the NFL on how to win a SB, there is what works for your team, and once again we are Good QB play away from being on top of the NFC North,,,,man I am glad you aren't running the team, to be honest. You give Palmer who is second in the league in passing yards, just under Manning by 7 yards, with our team and watch out. Even with our OC, G's, and WRs....Yea it is once again a HORRIBLE IDEA to want the second passing yards leading QB in the game right now because he doesn't fit your little mold.

So you think Palmer will make our WRs, OC and Gs good? Will Simpson some how learn to run more then a go route? Will he actually catch Palmers passes? Will Jenkins get faster and actually beat the DBs with Palmer? Will our OC all of a sudden realize what he has done wrong all season? Will our guards miraculously not miss their blocks because of Palmer? Since Palmer will set this franchise straight and fix all of our problems what would you suggest we trade for this messiah? Perhaps a few first round picks?

[Surlyc]

Will our OC all of a sudden realize what he has done wrong all season?

It is not unreasonable to think that Musgrave would trust Palmer more in his game plans.

So you think Palmer will make our WRs, OC and Gs good?

I would assume we'll be allowed to sign other players in the off season, unless you know something we don't?

The bottom line is that we have to get a veteran QB in to compete with Ponder. It's a joke to have an inexperienced young player backing up another inexperienced player. The question is do we get in someone like Rivers (who would start) or someone like Palmer or Campbell (who would compete with Ponder) and how much would we pay for them?

[VCU4LIFEGOVIKS]

It is not unreasonable to think that Musgrave would trust Palmer more in his game plans.

I would assume we'll be allowed to sign other players in the off season, unless you know something we don't?

The bottom line is that we have to get a veteran QB in to compete with Ponder. It's a joke to have an inexperienced young player backing up another inexperienced player. The question is do we get in someone like Rivers (who would start) or someone like Palmer or Campbell (who would compete with Ponder) and how much would we pay for them?

I would not mind getting Palmer. Don't get me wrong. I just don't think we are a QB away from a championship. This team has quite a few holes and we would have to trade for Palmer. The Raiders traded a first and second round pick for Palmer. There's no way I would be willing to give up even a fourth for him. If they cut him I would be all for signing the guy but that hasn't happened yet and most likely wont.

[dimgim]

Palmer is not a good fit here

[100%CHEESE FREE]

It is not unreasonable to think that Musgrave would trust Palmer more in his game plans.

I would assume we'll be allowed to sign other players in the off season, unless you know something we don't?

The bottom line is that we have to get a veteran QB in to compete with Ponder. It's a joke to have an inexperienced young player backing up another inexperienced player. The question is do we get in someone like Rivers (who would start) or someone like Palmer or Campbell (who would compete with Ponder) and how much would we pay for them?

The key here is that it has to be done through free agency. Even if Norv goes I don't see them being that quick to throw Rivers out too, and Rivers would be quite costly. Palmer on the other hand is also not playing very well (despite what you might think if you look at his stats which are mostly from garbage time) and the Raiders could want to get rid of him.

I'd be kind of meh about Campbell too at this point. I wouldn't say its a shoe-in but I think this would be a place that would interest Vick. Vick won't come cheap on the market though, cause you can guarantee that there's going to be at least two other teams trying to match any offer for him.

[VCU4LIFEGOVIKS]

Here is a list of the 2013 FA QBs

Luke McCown – ATL
Joe Flacco – BAL
Tarvaris Jackson – BUF
Tyler Thigpen – BUF
Derek Anderson – CAR
Jason Campbell – CHI
Josh McCown – CHI
Bruce Gradkowski – CIN
Drew Stanton – IND
Brady Quinn – KC
Pat Devlin – MIA – (Ex)
Matt Moore – MIA
Chase Daniel – NO
David Carr – NYG
Matt Leinart – OAK
Charlie Batch – PIT
Byron Leftwich – PIT
Kellen Clemens – STL
Rex Grossman – WAS