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  1. #61
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    This organization has about as terrible a scouting department that there is. How many good players have come out of the Phillies farm system over the past decade?

    FIRE ME!


    I dont do five year plans other organizations do, I guess. - Ruben Amaro Jr

  2. #62
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    Drunk Phil next to you in the bar doesn't count as an inside source.

  3. #63
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    How come this thread hasn't been closed yet?
    Don't let this face fool you...

    #28

  4. #64
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    cuz it's fun

  5. #65
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    Maybe the Phillies should consider not drafting so many HS players every year. Get more college bound players in here....our single A is always supplied with players other teams "may" consider in a deal...There is just no major league ready talent down in Triple A anymore...

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Illa215 View Post


    This organization has about as terrible a scouting department that there is. How many good players have come out of the Phillies farm system over the past decade?
    Cole Hamels, Jimmy Rollins, Ryan Howard, Chase Utley, Ryan Madson, Chooch Ruiz, Shane Victorino, Pat Burrell......

    You sir are ignorant.

    Unless that was sarcastic of course.

  7. #67
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    Shane didn't really come out of the pharm. He was a Rule 5 pick from the Dodgers.

    But yea, the Phillies minor leagues have been only slightly worse than the average minor league system over the last decade. It was all very well timed.
    Last edited by The A Team; 11-09-2012 at 02:43 PM.
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  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheIlladelph16 View Post
    Cole Hamels, Jimmy Rollins, Ryan Howard, Chase Utley, Ryan Madson, Chooch Ruiz, Shane Victorino, Pat Burrell......

    You sir are ignorant.

    Unless that was sarcastic of course.
    Come on man, Howard is one of the worst 1st basemen in the league. He had a couple of very good years(being generous), and they still did a poor job of developing them. They lucked into Carlos Ruiz as far as I'm concerned. They brought him in as a 2nd basemen, and didn't consider him at catcher until a winter ball coach decided to give him a shot. As A-Team said, Victorino was a rule-5 pick from LA. And Pat Burrell? Solid player for years, but one of the most disappointing prospects over the last fifteen years.

    They did great on Hamels, Utley, Rollins, and Madson. That's not a lot of talent over the last decade.

    FIRE ME!


    I dont do five year plans other organizations do, I guess. - Ruben Amaro Jr

  9. #69
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    A little unfair to dismiss Pat Burrell out of hand because he was good instead of very good. Same goes for Ruiz, getting a player out of a projected nobody is the definition of developing talent.
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  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Illa215 View Post
    Come on man, Howard is one of the worst 1st basemen in the league. He had a couple of very good years(being generous), and they still did a poor job of developing them. They lucked into Carlos Ruiz as far as I'm concerned. They brought him in as a 2nd basemen, and didn't consider him at catcher until a winter ball coach decided to give him a shot. As A-Team said, Victorino was a rule-5 pick from LA. And Pat Burrell? Solid player for years, but one of the most disappointing prospects over the last fifteen years.

    They did great on Hamels, Utley, Rollins, and Madson. That's not a lot of talent over the last decade.
    I don't disagree on Howard's development. It was handled poorly, but again to say they suck when they drafted a developed a guy who won ROY in half a season and an MVP award is wrong. He had minimal injury problems until recently, and more than made up for his defense until recently. I understand that Howard is viewed negatively because of that horrendous contract extension, but his value to this team was clear enough the first half of this season.

    Chooch was a no name prospect who was drafted and developed by our system and has turned into a debatable #1 defensively and game calling for his position, with a good bat to go along. I would credit that one to the system no mere luck.

    Burrell may not have been worth a #1 overall pick, but he was a very productive player. The only definitively better players more valuable that went in that draft are CC, Matt Holiday and Dunn, none of whom were close to a top 5 pick. The rest were meh.

    All those players were also key players in our World Series. Not to mention other prospects they developed enough to get us Halladay, Lee, Pence, etc. I'm really not trying to say they have some great farm system and management of said farm system, but you led off with a baseless claim that they haven't turned out a good player over the last decade. That is patently false.


    Quote Originally Posted by The A Team View Post
    Shane didn't really come out of the pharm. He was a Rule 5 pick from the Dodgers.

    But yea, the Phillies minor leagues have been only slightly worse than the average minor league system over the last decade. It was all very well timed.
    Yeah, I remembered Shane came out of the Rule 5 after the post. Good catch. The timing did work out perfect for us but at least 3 of those (Utley, Howard, Hamels) all have turned in superstar seasons over their career, and you could make a case for Rollins there too.

    A team like the Rays have a universally lauded farm system and rightfully so. But that has yet to net them a championship. Budget constraints and playing in the AL hurt them significantly, but you don't necessarily need a top farm system to develop great players.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by agulby26 View Post
    I got a inside source for the Phil's not aloud to name names but the Phillies are very interested in josh Hamilton and will go after him.
    He will be the Phil's new cf I guarantee it! he will except the Phil's massive offer! This Is no joke I'm a diehard Phil's fan and I promise you josh hamilton will be a Phil!
    Your inside source is what, Bleacher Report?...if your gonna want any credibility you should at least humor us with some grade school english.

    Quote Originally Posted by agulby26 View Post
    Who says he will continue to get hurt. Anybody could get hurt at anytime. If u wanna compete you need hamilton in the lineup. No question about it. They won't win with upton or Bourn in cf we need another power hitter which we haven't had since werth left
    When someone misses 157 games over the last 4 years, given his age, 31, its wishful thinking if you expect that trend to reverse. His defensive style of play doesn't exactly help either. On top of that you say they won't win with Upton or Bourn, yet they almost made the Playoffs after getting slammed by injuries throughout the year and trading 2/3 of their outfield, so of course they could win with Bourn or Upton. Both would give the lineup a boost, although Im not sure you want more strikeouts with Upton, theres no denying they are adequate upgrades.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheIlladelph16 View Post
    Cole Hamels, Jimmy Rollins, Ryan Howard, Chase Utley, Ryan Madson, Chooch Ruiz, Shane Victorino, Pat Burrell......

    You sir are ignorant.

    Unless that was sarcastic of course.
    Actually, you sir may be just as ignorant. Cole Hammels, Ryan Howard, Chase Utley, Ryan Madson, Carlos Ruiz, Shane Victorino, and Patt Burrell were all drafted or acquired by then General Manager Ed Wade. And the only other player on that list, Jimmy Rollins was drafted with the previous GM. None of those players were acquired or cultivated by the Ruben Amaro regime. The Phillies farm system has been relatively weak even before they traded Drabek and others.

    There hasn't been a young position player that has panned out for them the past few years. And the two notable prospects that they had under Amaro, Drabek and Dom Brown haven't exactly panned out. Vance Worley is probably the most productive player out of the Phillies farm system since 06.


    All that being said, the Phillies could probably realistically offer Hamilton a 3-5 year deal worth 80-100 million, and still be about 25 million under the luxury tax. But that would leave very little flexibility going forward, and there are more holes to fix. So is this threat a little outrageous yeah, but not a bad talking point. We could do without the phony claims of inside sources though....don't be that guy.
    Last edited by tdubb30; 11-10-2012 at 06:19 AM.

  12. #72
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    ^You just changed what we were talking about. The previous topic was "quality of phillies scouting and development."

    It's a little unfair to blame Ruben for not developing a top prospect in the short time he's been on the job. He hasn't had a high draft pick yet and frankly most prospects take longer than 4 years to develop. And I think somebody deserves some credit for the depth of pitching that has been developed recently. All those bullpen arms should save us quite a bit of money and let us acquire MLB role players at will.
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  13. #73
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    No I didn't. The quality of player development has been poor since about 06. I understand he took over in 08, and he should get credit for making those trades to build the pitching staff. I never questioned his Major League scouting. I question the prospect scouting and the player development over the last 5-6 years. Having late draft picks hasn't stop the Cardinals, Giants, Yankees, or Rangers from producing some top prospects the past 5 years. I know it takes a couple years for prospects to pan out but the Phillies don't have anything even on the map for the next year or two. Theres no denying that the farm system is relatively depleted.

  14. #74
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    Hamilton is an interesting name from a big splash marquee name standpoint.......but the combination of dollars and years it would take to get him would make this a very bad investment for us. Let someone else pay him.

  15. #75
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    WOuldnt it make more sense to sign Upton and Swisher for the same price as Hamilton?

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