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  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by TearsOfPurple View Post
    Jesus can people stop the Steele talk? If your joking; fine. But if you're serious...
    Dude totally joking ..come on man

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrooklynVikings View Post
    Dude totally joking ..come on man
    I'm just annoyed because people call on KFAN and they actually mean it, don't need that stupid idea hitting here also.

  3. #93
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    This post by Norm in the main forum shows Ponder does indeed hold onto the ball to long, but there are worse. Right under him: GOAT Aaron Rodgers

    http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/sho...d.php?t=777690

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by TearsOfPurple View Post
    This post by Norm in the main forum shows Ponder does indeed hold onto the ball to long, but there are worse. Right under him: GOAT Aaron Rodgers

    http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/sho...d.php?t=777690
    I don't really think that stat tells the whole story. I mean the difference between Ponder and Rodgers is .02 of a second. Is Rodgers really holding onto the ball to long? If he is finding guys down field and making plays then no he isn't. Is it Ponder's fault he has to hold onto the ball for so long or is the fault of our receivers because nobody is ever open? Rodgers holding onto the ball to long is more times than not going to end up being a good thing for his team. Ponder not so much. There is huge difference in play between Rodgers and Ponder but there is also a huge difference in the weapons the two have to work with. I think these are some really cool stats but I don't think it tells the full story.


    I cant wait to stand on the podium with Zygi and Mark and Jonathan, and were standing on the podium, and we look up and the confetti is falling down on top of us, and were all hand in hand, and Commissioner Goodell comes over and hands the Super Bowl trophy to Mr. Wilf and tells him hes world champion, that is my goal and that is my drive.
    - Mike Zimmer

  5. #95
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    Ya I know, just throwing it out there when people say "Ponder has to stop holding onto the ball for so goddamn long". He does, yes, but it's really not that bad, and there are like you said many other factors involved.

  6. #96
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    Wow Iowavike they are blasting you! You might as well just agree w/ them b/c if not your an "idiot". That's what people w/ no debating skills resort too. I'm not talking about Ponder anymore until Sunday's I may give one opinion post about his play but most will be about the players around him. I have to stop stooping to a childish level...you might as well follow suit. Just some advice. No disrespect intended.

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by jhood_121 View Post
    Wow Iowavike they are blasting you! You might as well just agree w/ them b/c if not your an "idiot". That's what people w/ no debating skills resort too. I'm not talking about Ponder anymore until Sunday's I may give one opinion post about his play but most will be about the players around him. I have to stop stooping to a childish level...you might as well follow suit. Just some advice. No disrespect intended.
    Big man with the veiled insults

    Vikings Roster thread
    http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/sho...d.php?t=718220

    WE TRUST V4LB!!! HE IS THE GREATEST GUY IN OUR FOURM.
    WITHOUT HIM OUR FOURM WOULDNT BE EXCITING.
    HE GETS ALL THE WOMEN!!!!
    HE IS NEVER WRONG!!!
    WE TRIED TO VOTE FOR HIM FOR PRESIDENT BUT HE IS SO GREAT THAT HE WOULDNT RUN FOR OFFICE

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by iowavike View Post
    Oh my I can always tell when Ponder is sucking , It's when ole cheesefree bashes on iowavike.
    Get a f--ing sense of humor. Not all post on here are 100% serious, especially mine.
    You'd be the guy on the Titanic saying be calm people, there's no way this ship can sink.
    You're right, I've never been high on Ponder like you have. Do I really look that stupid now?
    Doe's it make those of us that disagree with you about Ponder bad Viking fans. I think not. If anything we want to win even more. And that might mean changes need to be made.
    You think Ponder is really something special, I don't. One of us is going to be right and one of us is going to be wrong. Right now I'm betting on my position.
    OK, you're on. I'm going need to talk to someone but I have just the thing in mind. I say we sig bet this. If Ponder comes out of his slump and starts being an effective QB again, you need to rock a Ponder sig (of my choosing, probably one of the ones that VCU has floating around) from now until the beginning of next season.

    If his play doesn't improve and he gets benched, I will wear an anti-Ponder sig that says WE NEED A NEW QB, PONDER IS NOT THE ANSWER for the same amount of time. I hate to impose on him, but ToP made my last sig so I'm going to ask him to see if he will do this.

    I'm getting sick of the overstatement too, I do think that Chrisitian Ponder is a better football player than a lot of people give him credit for. I don't think that he's a one in a million future hall-of-famer find that we can ride all the way to a dynasty. What I do think is that with what he's had going for him he can be just the QB we need him to be with where the team is at now and heading into the future. As bad as he's played recently I think it is still too soon to quit on him, because I KNOW HE CAN PLAY BETTER FOOTBALL BECAUSE HE HAS BEFORE. I'll have another post on that later.

    Vikings Roster thread
    http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/sho...d.php?t=718220

    WE TRUST V4LB!!! HE IS THE GREATEST GUY IN OUR FOURM.
    WITHOUT HIM OUR FOURM WOULDNT BE EXCITING.
    HE GETS ALL THE WOMEN!!!!
    HE IS NEVER WRONG!!!
    WE TRIED TO VOTE FOR HIM FOR PRESIDENT BUT HE IS SO GREAT THAT HE WOULDNT RUN FOR OFFICE

  9. #99
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    So this took a bit of doing but I had some time to kill. I'm getting really sick and tired of hearing about how Ponder is a one trick pony, the only reason he's even any good is because of the screen passes to Harvin and once teams figured that out he went in the tank.

    I have NFL Gamepass up here in Canada and I decided to look at every short pass made to Harvin this year. While I was doing this I figured out the adjusted statistics for Christian Ponder, game by game if we factor out the screen passes to Harvin. I deliberately left out passes where he caught the ball after the line of scrimmage (there were only maybe 3 over the whole season, the majority of them are ye olde swing pass we've come used to seeing in the back field)

    I'll post my own conclusions after the stats.

    Christian Ponder 2012 season so far Stats with Harvin screen passes excluded in BOLD

    Week 1 vs. Jacksonville Jaguars

    Attempts: 27 24
    Completions: 20 17
    Yards&TD/INT: 270 0/0 223 0/0
    Completion %: 74% 70.8
    Quarterback rating: 105.5 99.8
    Yards-per-Attempt: 10 9.29

    Screen passes to Harvin
    3 attempts, 3 completions for 47 yards (20, 11 and 16 yards)

    Week 2 at Indianapolis Colts

    Attempts: 35 31
    Completions: 27 23
    Yards&TD/INT: 245, 2 TD 204, 2 TD
    Completion %: 77.1 74.1%
    Quarterback rating: 114.5 112.8
    Yards-per-Attempt: 7 6.5

    Screen passes to Harvin
    4 attempts, 4 completions for 41 yards (11, 5, 5 and 20 yards)

    Week 3 vs San Francisco 49ers

    Attempts: 35 30
    Completions: 21 16
    Yards&TD/INT: 198, 2 TD 165, 2 TD
    Completion %: 60 53.3%
    Quarterback rating: 94.7 91.6
    Yards-per-Attempt: 5.65 5.5

    Screen passes to Harvin
    5 attempts, 5 completions for 33 yards (12, 2, 2, 7, 10 yards)

    Week 4 at Detroit Lions

    Attempts: 26 23
    Completions: 16 13
    Yards&TD/INT: 111 106
    Completion %: 61.5% 56.5%
    Quarterback rating: 71.1 68.3
    Yards-per-Attempt: 4.3 4.6

    Screen passes to Harvin
    3 attempts, 2 completions for 5 yards (7 yards, -2 yards, incomplete pass)

    Week 5 vs Tennessee Titans

    Attempts: 35 31
    Completions: 25 21
    Yards&TD/INT: 258, 2 TD 2 INT 221, 1 TD 2 INT
    Completion %: 71.4 67.7
    Quarterback rating: 87.6 72.1
    Yards-per-Attempt: 7.4 7.2

    Screen passes to Harvin
    4 attempts, 4 completions for 35 yards 1 TD (14, 2, 9, 10 yards +TD)

    Week 6 at Washington Redskins

    Attempts: 52 47
    Completions: 35 30
    Yards&TD/INT: 352, 2 TD, 2 INT 308, 2 TD 2 INT
    Completion %: 67.3% 63.8
    Quarterback rating: 83.2 79.0
    Yards-per-Attempt: 6.8 6.5

    Screen passes to Harvin
    5 attempts, 5 completions for 44 yards (15, 9, 6, 5, 9 yards)

    Week 7 vs Arizona Cardinals

    Attempts: 17 15
    Completions: 8 6
    Yards&TD/INT: 58, 1 TD 2 INT 41, 2 INTs
    Completion %: 47.0 40
    Quarterback rating: 35.5 8.3
    Yards-per-Attempt: 3.4 2.7

    Screen passes to Harvin
    2 attempts, 2 completions for 17 yards and 1 TD (14, 3 yards + TD)

    Week 8 vs Tampa Bay

    Attempts: 35 28
    Completions: 19 15
    Yards&TD/INT: 251, 1 TD 1 INT 183, 1 TD 1 INT
    Completion %: 54.3 53.5
    Quarterback rating: 74.8 70.9
    Yards-per-Attempt: 7.2 6.5

    Screen passes to Harvin
    8 attempts, 5 completions for 68 yards (incomplete, incomplete, 32, 13, incomplete, 9, 11, 3 yards)

    Week 9 at Seattle Seahawks

    Attempts: 22 20
    Completions: 11 10
    Yards&TD/INT: 63, 1 INT 54, 1 INT
    Completion %: 50 50
    Quarterback rating: 37.3 35.4
    Yards-per-Attempt: 2.9 2.7

    Screen passes to Harvin
    2 attempts, 1 completion for 9 yards (incomplete, 9 yards)

    Here is the conclusion I've come to after doing all this up. You look at the stats from the earlier games, even with the adjusted #s you can tell when Ponder was playing well compared to how he is playing now. He is not dependent on the screen pass to Harvin, how else can you explain how close the adjusted QB ratings and YPAs are to his non adjusted ones?
    Last edited by 100%CHEESE FREE; 11-08-2012 at 08:09 AM.

    Vikings Roster thread
    http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/sho...d.php?t=718220

    WE TRUST V4LB!!! HE IS THE GREATEST GUY IN OUR FOURM.
    WITHOUT HIM OUR FOURM WOULDNT BE EXCITING.
    HE GETS ALL THE WOMEN!!!!
    HE IS NEVER WRONG!!!
    WE TRIED TO VOTE FOR HIM FOR PRESIDENT BUT HE IS SO GREAT THAT HE WOULDNT RUN FOR OFFICE

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by 100%CHEESE FREE View Post
    So this took a bit of doing but I had some time to kill. I'm getting really sick and tired of hearing about how Ponder is a one trick pony, the only reason he's even any good is because of the screen passes to Harvin and once teams figured that out he went in the tank.

    I have NFL Gamepass up here in Canada and I decided to look at every short pass made to Harvin this year. While I was doing this I figured out the adjusted statistics for Christian Ponder, game by game if we factor out the screen passes to Harvin. I deliberately left out passes where he caught the ball after the line of scrimmage (there were only maybe 3 over the whole season, the majority of them are ye olde swing pass we've come used to seeing in the back field)

    I'll post my own conclusions after the stats.

    Christian Ponder 2012 season so far Stats with Harvin screen passes excluded in BOLD

    Week 1 vs. Jacksonville Jaguars

    Attempts: 27 24
    Completions: 20 17
    Yards&TD/INT: 270 0/0 223 0/0
    Completion %: 74% 70.8
    Quarterback rating: 105.5 99.8
    Yards-per-Attempt: 10 9.29

    Screen passes to Harvin
    3 attempts, 3 completions for 47 yards (20, 11 and 16 yards)

    Week 2 at Indianapolis Colts

    Attempts: 35 31
    Completions: 27 23
    Yards&TD/INT: 245, 2 TD 204, 2 TD
    Completion %: 77.1 74.1%
    Quarterback rating: 114.5 112.8
    Yards-per-Attempt: 7 6.5

    Screen passes to Harvin
    4 attempts, 4 completions for 41 yards (11, 5, 5 and 20 yards)

    Week 3 vs San Francisco 49ers

    Attempts: 35 30
    Completions: 21 16
    Yards&TD/INT: 198, 2 TD 165, 2 TD
    Completion %: 60 53.3%
    Quarterback rating: 94.7 91.6
    Yards-per-Attempt: 5.65 5.5

    Screen passes to Harvin
    5 attempts, 5 completions for 33 yards (12, 2, 2, 7, 10 yards)

    Week 4 at Detroit Lions

    Attempts: 26 23
    Completions: 16 13
    Yards&TD/INT: 111 106
    Completion %: 61.5% 56.5%
    Quarterback rating: 71.1 68.3
    Yards-per-Attempt: 4.3 4.6

    Screen passes to Harvin
    3 attempts, 2 completions for 5 yards (7 yards, -2 yards, incomplete pass)

    Week 5 vs Tennessee Titans

    Attempts: 35 31
    Completions: 25 21
    Yards&TD/INT: 258, 2 TD 2 INT 221, 1 TD 2 INT
    Completion %: 71.4 67.7
    Quarterback rating: 87.6 72.1
    Yards-per-Attempt: 7.4 7.2

    Screen passes to Harvin
    4 attempts, 4 completions for 35 yards 1 TD (14, 2, 9, 10 yards +TD)

    Week 6 at Washington Redskins

    Attempts: 52 47
    Completions: 35 30
    Yards&TD/INT: 352, 2 TD, 2 INT 308, 2 TD 2 INT
    Completion %: 67.3% 63.8
    Quarterback rating: 83.2 79.0
    Yards-per-Attempt: 6.8 6.5

    Screen passes to Harvin
    5 attempts, 5 completions for 44 yards (15, 9, 6, 5, 9 yards)

    Week 7 vs Arizona Cardinals

    Attempts: 17 15
    Completions: 8 6
    Yards&TD/INT: 58, 1 TD 2 INT 41, 2 INTs
    Completion %: 47.0 40
    Quarterback rating: 35.5 8.3
    Yards-per-Attempt: 3.4 2.7

    Screen passes to Harvin
    2 attempts, 2 completions for 17 yards and 1 TD (14, 3 yards + TD)

    Week 8 vs Tampa Bay

    Attempts: 35 28
    Completions: 19 15
    Yards&TD/INT: 251, 1 TD 1 INT 183, 1 TD 1 INT
    Completion %: 54.3 53.5
    Quarterback rating: 74.8 70.9
    Yards-per-Attempt: 7.2 6.5

    Screen passes to Harvin
    8 attempts, 5 completions for 68 yards (incomplete, incomplete, 32, 13, incomplete, 9, 11, 3 yards)

    Week 9 at Seattle Seahawks

    Attempts: 22 20
    Completions: 11 10
    Yards&TD/INT: 63, 1 INT 54, 1 INT
    Completion %: 50 50
    Quarterback rating: 37.3 35.4
    Yards-per-Attempt: 2.9 2.7

    Screen passes to Harvin
    2 attempts, 1 completion for 9 yards (incomplete, 9 yards)

    Here is the conclusion I've come to after doing all this up. You look at the stats from the earlier games, even with the adjusted #s you can tell when Ponder was playing well compared to how he is playing now. He is not dependent on the screen pass to Harvin, how else can you explain how close the adjusted QB ratings and YPAs are to his non adjusted ones?
    Nice work man.


    I cant wait to stand on the podium with Zygi and Mark and Jonathan, and were standing on the podium, and we look up and the confetti is falling down on top of us, and were all hand in hand, and Commissioner Goodell comes over and hands the Super Bowl trophy to Mr. Wilf and tells him hes world champion, that is my goal and that is my drive.
    - Mike Zimmer

  11. #101
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    I'm glad someone else likes to do those things. Great stuff Cheese.

    Adopt-A-Viking: Harrison Smith
    Tackles: 23, INTs: 2, Sacks: 0

  12. #102
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    All those numbers are great man but just watching the boy play tells you everything you need to know. He plays scared and thats like blood in shark infested waters, teams know that now thats why defenseses are eating Ponder alive. Hey I think Ponder is a good dude I feel sorry for him.

  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by dimgim View Post
    All those numbers are great man but just watching the boy play tells you everything you need to know. He plays scared and thats like blood in shark infested waters, teams know that now thats why defenseses are eating Ponder alive. Hey I think Ponder is a good dude I feel sorry for him.
    He's playing scared now. He didn't before, this is a mental thing that can be corrected.

    Great work Cheese. I'll make that sig if you do the bet also.

  14. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by dimgim View Post
    All those numbers are great man but just watching the boy play tells you everything you need to know. He plays scared and thats like blood in shark infested waters, teams know that now thats why defenseses are eating Ponder alive. Hey I think Ponder is a good dude I feel sorry for him.
    They're eating him alive for a number of reasons though. The pressure is getting to him and he's making mistakes, however his guards are starting to let him down, the rest of the o-line just can't pick up a blitz (squarely on Loadholt and AP) plus the play calling. I have to stick up for Musgrave a little bit, he usually only runs the Harvin screen 4 or 5 times in a game, other than the one against the Bucs where he went ****ing crazy and ran it 8 times, often in quick succession.

    Another thing I notice (and there's lots of blame to spread around on this one too) but looking through all the play-by-plays, Ponder has an awful lot of incomplete deep passes to Michael Jenkins. I can't really recall more than one or two memorable drops by Jenkins but here's something to consider: Lots of people are going on about Ponder not making reads and just taking his first target. I probably stood up for Jenkins more than anybody on here this off-season, lots of people wanted him cut because he was over-paid, I believed that he had a role to play on this team and was still of use. So far this year he's not having too bad of a time (26 receptions, 295 yards and 1 TD, roughly on par for the $1 mil we're paying him) but here is what I don't get. WHY THE **** IS MOLASSES MICHAEL JENKINS HIS FIRST READ!? About the only way for a guy to get open is for him to out-fox somebody on a route or go up for a jump-ball both things are a tricky proposition when he's running balls out down the field. Also lets face it, he's not going to be able to do very much after the catch. Jenkins should be used very minimally on deep routes, at this point he should be running medium-out routes, this makes me question Musgrave so much. I don't care that he's inconsistent and has had trouble with drops, try targeting Aromashodu deep, he's improved with his route running and has a way better set of wheels.

    The end result for me is that benching Ponder will be no solution whatsoever and will just set us back/slow us down.

    One last thing to throw out there, and I think that you can pretty much hang your hat on this one if this is how things go down. Looking at everybody on the coaches roster right now, if Frazier and Spielman decide to pull the plug on Musgrave, Offensive Line coach Jeff Davidson is going to be our new OC. He has an alright resume (he OC'd for the 2006 Browns which were terrible and was OC of the Panthers from 2007-2010 which had a great year in 2008 but died with a wimper at the hands of Jimmy Clausen) but his offense (modified Patriots Erhardt-Perkins scheme which Musgrave said he was going to blend into his WCO) was probably a little bit different from what Musgrave is doing but the way I see it he's certainly the most qualified for the job.

    Vikings Roster thread
    http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/sho...d.php?t=718220

    WE TRUST V4LB!!! HE IS THE GREATEST GUY IN OUR FOURM.
    WITHOUT HIM OUR FOURM WOULDNT BE EXCITING.
    HE GETS ALL THE WOMEN!!!!
    HE IS NEVER WRONG!!!
    WE TRIED TO VOTE FOR HIM FOR PRESIDENT BUT HE IS SO GREAT THAT HE WOULDNT RUN FOR OFFICE

  15. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by TearsOfPurple View Post
    He's playing scared now. He didn't before, this is a mental thing that can be corrected.

    Great work Cheese. I'll make that sig if you do the bet also.
    Thanks dude, I was too busy to ask you lol.

    Vikings Roster thread
    http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/sho...d.php?t=718220

    WE TRUST V4LB!!! HE IS THE GREATEST GUY IN OUR FOURM.
    WITHOUT HIM OUR FOURM WOULDNT BE EXCITING.
    HE GETS ALL THE WOMEN!!!!
    HE IS NEVER WRONG!!!
    WE TRIED TO VOTE FOR HIM FOR PRESIDENT BUT HE IS SO GREAT THAT HE WOULDNT RUN FOR OFFICE

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