Garnett vs. Kobe

[leprechaun5]

now I KNOW you don't know what you're talking about.

great reply , how did you do that

[KnicksorBust]

People are not acting that way we are bringing light to the circumstances by which he got those rings. This is a team sport and if we're going to talk about rings we can't just act as if he did it all by himself. Kobe would have never gotten close to winning a ring in Minny as a matter of a fact he would have forced himself out long before KG.

There's no way you could possibly know that. It's pure speculation. Their entire franchise's history and transactions would be alterred. All they would have had to do was add a quality big and then they definately could have won a title or two.

[KnicksorBust]

Wait are we using a one year sample size by which to ascertain this significantly less statement? Wow.

No friend. We are using careers. Are you trying to tell me Kobe's teams haven't achieved significantly more success than KG's? Exactly.

[Jint.]

Garnett

[KnicksorBust]

In his prime KG would put but 22 13 and 5 on a nightly basis. Combined with great defense, leadership, and unselfish play gives him the nod imo. KG has never been bashed by teammates for being selfish, or being hard to play with. While Kobe has been accused numerous times of being a bad teammate,

Now this I can respect. I see what it is about KG that you value over Kobe.

Firstly, let me explain myself. I think Kobe Bryant is the second best SG in the history of the game. I think he is an amazing player. I think he had a huge hand in the Lakers winning 5 championships. And I also think Kevin Garnett is better. Just because I say Kevin Garnett is better, and that I don't think Kobe's ring total makes him better, doesn't mean that I don't think Kobe is an all-time great, or that he didn't earn his rings.

I think Kobe earned every ring he got. I think Kobe Bryant is an amazing basketball player. I also think that Michael Jordan, had he player with Kobe's cast, would have come away with more rings that Kobe. I think the same of Garnett

I think, had Kobe had Flip Saunders as a coach (no offence Flip, you are a good coach, but you aren't Phil Jackson), and has Wally and Marbury as teammates, and had Kevin McHale as a GM, that he likely would have lost in the first round a lot. Likely as often as McGrady.

I think, had Garnett played with Shaq and Glen Rice and Nick Van Exel and Eddie Jones, that he would have won as many rings as Kobe, if not more.

It think Shaq > Wally. And you can quote me on that. To compare Wally to Shaq, or an aged Spreewell to a prime Gasol, it just illustrates the flaw of your arguement.


Garnett, with an injury plagued Minny team, played LAL in the conference finals, and Kobe has; Shaq, Karl Malone and Gary Payton as teammates. And guess what.. he lost... to four HOFers... you know how many HOFers were on Minny that year? One. And you know what, Kobe took his team to the finals and lost to the Pistons. The first year he lead the Lakers in shots per game ahead of Shaq, the Lakers missed the finals, and the next year, they lost in the finals. The Lakers did better with Shaq as the first option.

Kobe rings are the result of a team effort. To give him credit for those rings and say they are the reason he is a better player than another player who never had the chance to play with prime HOFers like Kobe did is rediculous.

See you did it again. "KG would have won more titles with Shaq." Okay. That's your opinion and that proves nothing. Garnett made ONE playoff run in 8 seasons. He was disgustingly underachieving in every playoff series and was choking in elimination games for over half a decade. That's relevant to me. During this same time period, Kobe was collecting rings. Then his team sucked. They had one season of missing the playoffs (hardly as embarassing as KG's playoff performances from 98-03) and then Kobe carried that team on his back to the playoffs. Then they tried for one all-star big and it was title time again. The proof is in the record.

[KnicksorBust]

great reply , how did you do that

Because you think KG played well in the playoffs from 98-03. Until you realize how flawed a notion that is, we have nothing to say to each other.

[bigsams50]

Now this I can respect. I see what it is about KG that you value over Kobe.



See you did it again. "KG would have won more titles with Shaq." Okay. That's your opinion and that proves nothing. Garnett made ONE playoff run in 8 seasons. He was disgustingly underachieving in every playoff series and was choking in elimination games for over half a decade. That's relevant to me. During this same time period, Kobe was collecting rings. Then his team sucked. They had one season of missing the playoffs (hardly as embarassing as KG's playoff performances from 98-03) and then Kobe carried that team on his back to the playoffs. Then they tried for one all-star big and it was title time again. The proof is in the record.

For a question like this, its all about preference i think. Some prefer a big, others a perimeter player. There is no wrong answer, just different preference

[Swashcuff]

There's no way you could possibly know that. It's pure speculation. Their entire franchise's history and transactions would be alterred. All they would have had to do was add a quality big and then they definately could have won a title or two.

Give Kobe the same circumstances under which KG was given. How many titles does Kobe win. 2 all star players a revolving door of coaches and piss poor management.

[Swashcuff]

No friend. We are using careers. Are you trying to tell me Kobe's teams haven't achieved significantly more success than KG's? Exactly.

No I'm not. The context in which you used made it seem as though you were alluding to the fact that Kobe made the post season without help in one season and KG missed the post season without help.

IMO its an utterly ignorant statement to use Kobe's accolades as the reason for him being better than KG. Most are deserved, some are team rewards and the others weren't reasonable I mean seriously Kobe has no business on any defensive team in the last 4 seasons.

[leprechaun5]

Because you think KG played well in the playoffs from 98-03. Until you realize how flawed a notion that is, we have nothing to say to each other.

Garnett 01/02 playoff averages

24ppg
18.7rpg
5 apg

Garnett 02/03 playoff avergaes

27 ppg
15.7 rpg
5 apg

What the hell are you talking about ?

[KnicksorBust]

No I'm not. The context in which you used made it seem as though you were alluding to the fact that Kobe made the post season without help in one season and KG missed the post season without help.

IMO its an utterly ignorant statement to use Kobe's accolades as the reason for him being better than KG. Most are deserved, some are team rewards and the others weren't reasonable I mean seriously Kobe has no business on any defensive team in the last 4 seasons.

Then we fundamentally disagree on how to value players. Taking your team to the Finals and winning NBA Championships is what the game is all about. There is a reason why all the greatest players in NBA History have won titles. Granted some do it with varying levels of difficulty but at the end of the day it's about if you got it done and how you got it done.

Give Kobe the same circumstances under which KG was given. How many titles does Kobe win. 2 all star players a revolving door of coaches and piss poor management.

You act like everything would have been exactly the same. It's much easier to build a team around Kobe than KG. This has been proven when Gasol went from an all-star PF to a HoF.

[KnicksorBust]

Garnett 01/02 playoff averages

24ppg
18.7rpg
5 apg

Game 1 - 6 for 18 from the field for 19 points
Game 2 - 9 for 19 from the field for 31 points (his one decent game)
Game 3 (season on the line) - 9 for 19 and a disgusting 4 for 9 from the free throw line with 6 turnovers

While Dirk TORCHED him for 30 points in game 1, 31 points in game 2, and 39 points-17rebounds in the game clincher.

You still bragging?

Garnett 02/03 playoff avergaes

27 ppg
15.7 rpg
5 apg

His 2nd best playoff series in that span yet he was arguably the 3rd best player in that series behind Shaq and Kobe.

[KnicksorBust]

I'm impressed that you were able to find ONE year during that span where he played respectably. He was the 3rd best player in the matchup and was eliminated in the first round. Is that really your big victory? I can't wait to hear your response to his series vs. the Mavs were Dirk absolutely owned him.

Let me guess you'd take Dirk over Kobe too?

[Swashcuff]

Then we fundamentally disagree on how to value players. Taking your team to the Finals and winning NBA Championships is what the game is all about. There is a reason why all the greatest players in NBA History have won titles. Granted some do it with varying levels of difficulty but at the end of the day it's about if you got it done and how you got it done.

You addressed one aspect. I really don't think you're applying any form of context.

You act like everything would have been exactly the same. It's much easier to build a team around Kobe than KG. This has been proven when Gasol went from an all-star PF to a HoF.

It is your opinion that its much easier. How has Gasol going from All Star to HOFer change anything? I don't get that. Gasol could have easily joined Wade and turned into a HOFer in much the same way.

[b@llhog24]

Kevin Garnett. Only perimeter players I would take over him are probably MJ, Bird and Magic if I was starting a franchise.