Like us on Facebook


Follow us on Twitter





Page 1 of 5 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 61
  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    293
    vCash
    1500

    Chances Terry Collins is brought back next season

    What do you guys think are the chances he comes back? I hope we look for a new manager as we turn the corner and might be ready to start really competing again.

    TC

    Strengths
    - Good player motivator
    - Seems to be liked by the players

    Weknesses
    - Struggles mightily with bullpen moves, tries to get too cute
    - Makes some questionable decision with the roster as far as playing time goes

    I personally don't want to see him back next year. He does not have a proven track record of a successful manager, and I think he loses more games for us than he wins (I don't think managers have a huge impact on Wins/Losses players do, but when he doesn't put the players in a position to succeed that's when you cost your team games.

    Thoughts everyone??

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    East of the Sun, West of the Moon
    Posts
    15,392
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by ImTheKing30 View Post
    What do you guys think are the chances he comes back? I hope we look for a new manager as we turn the corner and might be ready to start really competing again.

    TC

    Strengths
    - Good player motivator
    - Seems to be liked by the players

    Weknesses
    - Struggles mightily with bullpen moves, tries to get too cute
    - Makes some questionable decision with the roster as far as playing time goes

    I personally don't want to see him back next year. He does not have a proven track record of a successful manager, and I think he loses more games for us than he wins (I don't think managers have a huge impact on Wins/Losses players do, but when he doesn't put the players in a position to succeed that's when you cost your team games.

    Thoughts everyone??
    The weakness of your argument is that fans pretty much complain about in game moves for every manager, LaRussa, Scioscia, Francona, and you and others will compain about whomever replaces TC.
    "The 90 wins is about challenge. It's about changing the conversation. It's about framing questions for ourselves as to how we get there. So I stand by the notion that we need to get better, and in doing so we need to set concrete goals for ourselves so that we have sort of specific conversations among ourselves about how we're going to get there." -- Mr. Alderson

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    293
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by Dugmet View Post
    The weakness of your argument is that fans pretty much complain about in game moves for every manager, LaRussa, Scioscia, Francona, and you and others will compain about whomever replaces TC.
    Of course because every manager makes mistakes.....Terry just make's more mistakes then your typical manager does, he makes them on a consistent basis.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    East of the Sun, West of the Moon
    Posts
    15,392
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by ImTheKing30 View Post
    Of course because every manager makes mistakes.....Terry just make's more mistakes then your typical manager does, he makes them on a consistent basis.
    You have the empirical data to back this up?

    You don't, because there is no empirical data that measures the effectiveness of a manager. Do you have the anecdotal evidence? You don't have this either because you don't watch or follow other teams daily and with as much interest.

    If Terry does make more "mistakes" it's because he has lousy players. Ultimately players have to execute. Players play the game and succeed or fail. Bad players fail. Good players succeed. Mets don't have many good players.
    Last edited by Dugmet; 07-14-2013 at 06:54 PM.
    "The 90 wins is about challenge. It's about changing the conversation. It's about framing questions for ourselves as to how we get there. So I stand by the notion that we need to get better, and in doing so we need to set concrete goals for ourselves so that we have sort of specific conversations among ourselves about how we're going to get there." -- Mr. Alderson

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    293
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by Dugmet View Post
    You have the empirical data to back this up?

    You don't, because there is no empirical data that measures the effectiveness of a manager. Do you have the anecdotal evidence? You don't have this either because you don't watch or follow other teams daily and with as much interest.

    If Terry does make more "mistakes" it's because he has lousy players. Ultimately players have to execute. Players play the game and succeed or fail. Bad players fail. Good players succeed. Mets don't have many good players.
    Your like a broken record you always say wheres your proof wheres your data, but then you never back up any of your opinions with data. You want to know where my data is? It's my own two eyes that consistenly watch TC insert the wrong players in the wrong situations. He doesn't play the best, most deserving players, he inserts players in spots where they are set up to fail, he pulls players to early and he leaves them in too long. My points are validated by knowledgeable analysts and announcers who agree. Terry Collins has never been a successful manager.....EVER his career winning percentage is below .500. I have no idea why you defend him so aggressively. Good managers win, and Terry Collins doesn't so theres you data.
    Last edited by metswon69; 07-14-2013 at 09:31 PM. Reason: No name calling..

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    293
    vCash
    1500
    Oh and here is an older column about how he cost his team while in Houston:Baseball analyst Joe Morgan suggests that Collins was partly to blame for the Astros failure to make the playoffs.[11] Writing in 1999, Morgan says:
    Adversity is part of baseball; if a manager can't cope with it his team will suffer. Terry Collins, the skipper of the Anaheim Angels learned this lesson when he was with Houston. The Astros were a talented team when Collins was there (1994-96). They finished second three times, but failed to make the playoffs because their manager exerted too much pressure on them. He was so uptight, his players thought each pitch was life-or-death. It wasn't anything Terry said; it was his demeanor.
    Last edited by ImTheKing30; 07-14-2013 at 08:21 PM.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Brooklyn
    Posts
    21,600
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by Dugmet View Post
    You have the empirical data to back this up?

    You don't, because there is no empirical data that measures the effectiveness of a manager. Do you have the anecdotal evidence? You don't have this either because you don't watch or follow other teams daily and with as much interest.

    If Terry does make more "mistakes" it's because he has lousy players. Ultimately players have to execute. Players play the game and succeed or fail. Bad players fail. Good players succeed. Mets don't have many good players.
    See the thing is Dug is that when posters give you the empirical data suggesting it was the incorrect move you dismiss it anyway. Like in the IGT the other day when putting Valdespin in instead of Satin or taking Hefner out prematurely. There are legitimate arguments for those moves instead of putting in JV1 (who was demoted a game later no less).

    There was a distinct difference Satin's stats and Valdespins, especially JV1 having hit .143 in the last month and half.

    I don't think this is just on the players. The manager needs to be accountable as well when handling his players incorrectly or not putting them in the best position to succeed like ImTheKing mentioned.
    Last edited by metswon69; 07-14-2013 at 09:51 PM.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    18,815
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    See the thing is Dug is that when posters give you the empirical data suggesting it was the incorrect move you dismiss it anyway. Like in the IGT the other day when putting Valdespin in instead of Satin or taking Hefner out prematurely. There are legitimate arguments for those moves instead of putting in JV1 (who was demoted a game later no less).

    There was a distinct difference Satin's stats and Valdespins, especially JV1 having hit .143 in the last month and half.

    I don't think this is just on the players. The manager needs to be accountable as well when handling his players incorrectly or not putting them in the best position to succeed like ImTheKing mentioned.
    I was at the games on Friday and last night. While I understand Terry's reason for pinch hitting for Hefner, I completely disagree with it. Hefner's pitch count was low. Putting a .190 hitter up there who hasn't had many at bats over the past few weeks was just wasting an out and then having to burn bullpen arms when Hefner was blowing through them Wouldn't 9 innings out of Hefner had made it easier to manage the pen in extra innings?

    That being said (or typed), Collins has not been as horrible as you have made him out to be. My friends and the other Mets fans around us were bashing Collins last night in the 5th inning for leaving Torres out there when he was running out of gas. I agreed with Terry in that case. He needed 5 full innings out of Torres last night after the extra inning game on Friday, and in the end they got through the inning with a 2-1 lead. It's not Terry's fault the team can't score.


    Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.
    -Sun Tzu

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Queens, NY
    Posts
    51,185
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Magoo View Post
    I was at the games on Friday and last night. While I understand Terry's reason for pinch hitting for Hefner, I completely disagree with it. Hefner's pitch count was low. Putting a .190 hitter up there who hasn't had many at bats over the past few weeks was just wasting an out and then having to burn bullpen arms when Hefner was blowing through them Wouldn't 9 innings out of Hefner had made it easier to manage the pen in extra innings?

    That being said (or typed), Collins has not been as horrible as you have made him out to be. My friends and the other Mets fans around us were bashing Collins last night in the 5th inning for leaving Torres out there when he was running out of gas. I agreed with Terry in that case. He needed 5 full innings out of Torres last night after the extra inning game on Friday, and in the end they got through the inning with a 2-1 lead. It's not Terry's fault the team can't score.
    You live in Pittsburgh?

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    18,815
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna View Post
    You live in Pittsburgh?
    Um, no. I live in Manhattan. They have these things now. They're called airplanes.


    Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.
    -Sun Tzu

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Queens, NY
    Posts
    51,185
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Magoo View Post
    Um, no. I live in Manhattan. They have these things now. They're called airplanes.
    lol. Did you fly for the sole purpose of watching the Mets, or were you just in town?

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Brooklyn
    Posts
    21,600
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Magoo View Post

    That being said (or typed), Collins has not been as horrible as you have made him out to be. My friends and the other Mets fans around us were bashing Collins last night in the 5th inning for leaving Torres out there when he was running out of gas. I agreed with Terry in that case. He needed 5 full innings out of Torres last night after the extra inning game on Friday, and in the end they got through the inning with a 2-1 lead. It's not Terry's fault the team can't score.
    I was out Saturday so i didn't see the game for make a judgment on it so to speak but the ramifications of not letting Hefner go in the 8th and possibly 9th inning of that game Friday night presumably shortened up the bullpen for the rest of the series. He did the same thing in the Harvey game against SF. To get one more inning out of Harvey (and knowing Harvey's stats from innings 7-9), he made that bullpen possibly go 7 extra innings longer than it should have. The only reason why San Francisco didn't take that first game was because of how putrid offensively they have been over the last month (stranded 13 men on base in extra innings that day)

    The Mets are 9th in the majors in innings pitched by their bullpen. To me his decision on Friday night to take Hefner or at the very least not use another pinch hitter in JV1 possibly cost them that series.

    Honestly, i think he just does a very poor job of handling in game situations. He's a great manager when it comes to dealing with personalities but imo there are more qualified guys when it comes to the X's and O's of the game.
    Last edited by metswon69; 07-14-2013 at 11:17 PM.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    18,815
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    I was out Saturday so i didn't see the game for make a judgment on it so to speak but the ramifications of not letting Hefner go in the 8th and possibly 9th inning of that game Friday night presumably shortened up the bullpen for the rest of the series. He did the same thing in the Harvey against SF. To get one more inning out of Harvey, he made that bullpen possibly go 7 extra innings longer than it should have. The only reason why San Francisco didn't take that first game was because of how putrid offensively they have been over the last month (stranded 13 men on base in extra innings that day)

    The Mets are 9th in the majors in innings pitched by their bullpen. To me his decision on Friday night to take Hefner or at the very least not use another pinch hitter in JV1 possibly cost them that series.

    Honestly, i think he just does a very poor job of handling in game situations. He's a great manager when it comes to dealing with personalities but to me there are more qualified guys when it comes to the X's and O's of the game.
    Please don't make statements that make me have to sound like you know who, but your statement is your opinion, and there is nothing to back it up. Like I already stated, I thought removing Hefner was the wrong move, but that doesn't mean leaving Hef in would have netted a different result. We don't know if Hefner would have given up a run in the 8th or 9th. We also don't know if it would have mattered because the Mets didn't hit at all in the series, son why do you think they would have scored before the Pirates did in extra innings?

    You're trying to rewrite history or reimagine it, in order to make your point.


    Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.
    -Sun Tzu

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Queens, NY
    Posts
    51,185
    vCash
    1500
    Well we ended up burning our bullpen that game, so if Hefner gave up a run in the 8th or 9th, they would have at least had a fresh bullpen the next day for a guy making his 1st start in the big leagues in years after long relief duties.

    So while we might not have won Friday night, I think we would have had a better chance on Saturday.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    18,815
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna View Post
    lol. Did you fly for the sole purpose of watching the Mets, or were you just in town?
    For the sole purpose of watching the Mets, going to a city and stadium I've never been to, and eating too much really unhealthy food. Primanti Brothers, baby.

    If I lived in Pittsburgh, I'd probably weigh between 250 and 400 pounds...like most people in Pittsburgh do. The women too.


    Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.
    -Sun Tzu

Page 1 of 5 123 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •