Lou vs. N. Young

[steagles]

your statement:

He also displayed in the playoffs that his regular season numbers and role were both a bit inflated.

my statement:

one other thing to point out about this, is that the sixers weren't playing against teams with good defenses in the playoffs last year. they weren't playing against teams with top 10 defenses in the playoffs last year. they were playing against the 2 best defenses in the NBA in the playoffs last season.

if that's the standard you're using to judge whether a player is overrated, there are going to be a lot of players you think are overrated.

your statement:

So jrues improvement in post season should be weighted more heavily? Just curious.

my statement:

more heavily than what?

he had 14 points, 6 rebounds, and 11 assists in the season opener, and with lou and iggy gone, he has full run of the offense.

so, yeah, i'd expect quite a bit of improvement this year. i don't know that that has anything to do with 13 games from last postseason, though.

your statement:

Jrues number in the playoff were much better than the regular season. He played against the two best defenses. So I'm asking does he get a bonus for that since you were giving Lou a pass for wilting against same defenses?

my statement:

when i think of projections, i think more in terms of range of outcomes. and when that's the basis for your expectations, what matters isn't so much the range of outcomes, which for the most part remains stagnant from year to year, what matters is the change in the likelihood of outcomes.

when you look at that, then no, jrue playing well in the playoffs last year does not significantly move the needle in any way.

Well why did you bother mentioning that those were the two best defenses in the nba? That's odd, I mean if it doesn't mean anything and all.

Because you were trying to make the point that you can't judge Lou on those games. They'd make a lot of players look bad. That standard is too high.

Am I right?

So I took the converse. Well what if a player performs better on the bigger stage against strong defenses. What does that say about said player? Your response is "nothing".

So lets go back around to why did you even bring it up?

my first post addressed the context of your first post. lou's performance lagged in the playoffs last year because he was playing against the best defenses in the league.

now, i'm still not quite clear on what you're referring to in your second and third posts -- "weighted more heavily" and "does [jrue] get a bonus" lack a clarity of context because there's no direct object. "weighted more heavily" than what? "does jrue get a bouns" over what? -- so what i addressed in my third post was whether jrue's performance in the playoffs had any predictive value.

in both cases, for lou and for jrue, i would say that there's little, if any, predictive value to be taken from their performances last postseason.

if there's an inconsistency there, it's because the topics i addressed were not consistent.


i'm gonna leave this there. although, i will say that this:

if that's the standard you're using to judge whether a player is overrated, there are going to be a lot of players you think are overrated

seems worth highlighting because, while it applies to your sentiments regarding lou williams, it also applies to alot of people's sentiments regarding thad young and spencer hawes.

and if you want to ask what those three have in common, it would be that they were the sixers three best offensive players last year.

and if you want to ask which 3 players would be most likely to struggle against the 2 best defensive teams in the NBA, again...

[RickyPrior]

Dear Lord, what happened to my thread.

I stepped away for a few hours...and THIS?

Back on track fellas: both Lou and Nick have games today. Good luck to both; recap to follow.

[MylesKong]

your statement:
my statement:
your statement:
my statement:
your statement:

my statement:


my first post addressed the context of your first post. lou's performance lagged in the playoffs last year because he was playing against the best defenses in the league.

now, i'm still not quite clear on what you're referring to in your second and third posts -- "weighted more heavily" and "does [jrue] get a bonus" lack a clarity of context because there's no direct object. "weighted more heavily" than what? "does jrue get a bouns" over what? -- so what i addressed in my third post was whether jrue's performance in the playoffs had any predictive value.

in both cases, for lou and for jrue, i would say that there's little, if any, predictive value to be taken from their performances last postseason.

if there's an inconsistency there, it's because the topics i addressed were not consistent.


i'm gonna leave this there. although, i will say that this:
seems worth highlighting because, while it applies to your sentiments regarding lou williams, it also applies to alot of people's sentiments regarding thad young and spencer hawes.

and if you want to ask what those three have in common, it would be that they were the sixers three best offensive players last year.

and if you want to ask which 3 players would be most likely to struggle against the 2 best defensive teams in the NBA, again...

I totally agree with the last part. Having players that perform in the playoffs is what we want. It's the biggest knock on Thad. So when I said bonus I guess I meant recognition or at least an understand that that is a very valuable trait in a player.

See, we weren't even arguing.

[warfelg]

Dear Lord, what happened to my thread.

I stepped away for a few hours...and THIS?

Back on track fellas: both Lou and Nick have games today. Good luck to both; recap to follow.

My question is why does it matter to compare the two?

If Nick Young plays his role on the team as a supporting player and we continue to win I don't care what his numbers were.

Lou can continue to put up numbers in loosing efforts in ATL.

I just want a win. Cuz a win is a win is a win.

[BChydro86]

All that really matters is what lou did for us in philly last season.... And he wasnt good, he lost us games.

Lou could be a very good player off the ball, hes not a combo guard, hes not a point guard.... Hes an undersized 2.... He could have been a winning basketball player for us, if he never handled the ball.... And obviously the shot selection was atrocious.... Prob worse than nick youngs gonna be for us.

[wannabGM]

One reason why I think differently is they said they wanted to get longer on the outside. They did. Lou wouldn't have helped that area. It served them better to find guys to play off the primary ball handler.

I have to compare the two. They were the thorns in my side last season. Lets see how that dude does against lebron/wade tonight. The big question everyone has about our defense. I believe our scheme made him look better than he made our defense look. We'll see.

To the bolded parts:
1. I agree that the Sixers preferred a 1 year deal with Wright and NYoung compared to signing Lou long term.....mostly due to what you stated about length. However, if Lou didn't test FA, the Sixers clearly made initial offers. Organizations often play it safe when they can. They likely didn't know for sure they'd get both NYoung and Wright until FA started. And Collins was likely still worried about scoring (and his own ***). So trust me, if Lou was willing to sign instead of test FA, it would have probably happened.

2. Just no ****ing way. Especially for the first 3.5 quarters of the game, Iguodala made the rest of the defense often better....not worse. If anything they usually left Iggy on a defensive island and didn't provide him enough help in certain matchups. Usually he got the job done anyway...in impressive fasion. I'm sorry....just no ****ing way. Probably Collins used some motivational tactics to get Iggy to be a better defender. But scheme had nothing to do with Iggy's defense nor the impact his defense had on our team.

[MylesKong]

2. He was missed today.

[BChydro86]

With the way melo was playing and how poorly lavoy allen and thad were rotating.... I dont know how much a difference iggy makes....

Maybe jr smith and ronnie brewer play worse and miss more shots

[Sixerlover]

All that really matters is what lou did for us in philly last season.... And he wasnt good, he lost us games.

Lou could be a very good player off the ball, hes not a combo guard, hes not a point guard.... Hes an undersized 2.... He could have been a winning basketball player for us, if he never handled the ball.... And obviously the shot selection was atrocious.... Prob worse than nick youngs gonna be for us.

I really think you've soured on Lou exponentially since he's left. In the beginning of the season the bench was the reason we were winning so many of those games, and he was the best guy off of the bench. He also kept us in plenty of games in the 4th when Jrue was too passive to shoot, and E.T and Dre were clanking 18 footers.

He definitely shot us out of a few games in the end, but he also kept us in, and won games too. And Nick Young's shot selection is horrid. I'm a swaggy fan, but that's his #1 knock from DC to LA to here, and there are many stats to prove it.

[BChydro86]

Same knocks on lou

[MylesKong]

In the beginning I thought spence was playing out his mind. And we were blowing teams out. I don't you can pick one guy as the reason.

[RickyPrior]

I really think you've soured on Lou exponentially since he's left. In the beginning of the season the bench was the reason we were winning so many of those games, and he was the best guy off of the bench. He also kept us in plenty of games in the 4th when Jrue was too passive to shoot, and E.T and Dre were clanking 18 footers.

He definitely shot us out of a few games in the end, but he also kept us in, and won games too. And Nick Young's shot selection is horrid. I'm a swaggy fan, but that's his #1 knock from DC to LA to here, and there are many stats to prove it.

Perfect.

[BChydro86]

I dont get how u can knock n young for his bad D and shot selection and then praise lou williams.

Seems quite contradictory to me

[RickyPrior]

I dont get how u can knock n young for his bad D and shot selection and then praise lou williams.

Seems quite contradictory to me

You never seem to 'understand' anyone's points. Why is that.

Lou was the team's best offensive player; Atlanta is thrilled to have him.

N Young does nothing well.

Quite simple really.

[BChydro86]

Im not really arguing that lou isnt better than young.

But id rather have young for this team right now on an expiring contract.

At the end of the day, i day i dont want either of them. We should be able to do better