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  1. #346
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    Bass sucks. He can't defend, he can't rebound, and he has no offensive game. The only thing he can do is hit the open shot, and if he's missing that he's completely useless on the floor.

    Celtics need a trade badly. The only two players I wouldn't trade would be Rondo and KG. Ideally we want to keep Sully and Green as well. Everyone else could go. DA needs to trade our 2013-2050 first round picks if it means getting some real young talent.


    BELIEVELAND 2014 WE PUSHIN

    Johnny Football + LBJ bringing it back to C-town

  2. #347
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    I don't think the sky is falling. This team is underachieving. The reason for that has to be determined, if possible.

    I welcomed Doc stating "I've got to figure it out" repeatedly in a 90 second post game "interview" because it is his responsibility to do so as head coach. If we trust Doc as the head coach, then we must listen to what he is saying - namely that this team is dysfunctional.

    Then Doc crossed a line when he threatened "we’re going to get some guys out of here." The first guy(s) traded or not brought back will be looked upon and labeled as the reason the Celtics underachieved. You don't mess with someone's livelihood in that manner. It's why when trades are made or players are released GM's and coaches often go out of their way to praise the departing athlete and thank them for their contributions.

    It should also be noted at the end Doc backed off a bit as if he realized he had made an error in judgement. In a more general sense he stated "we've got to make changes" perhaps including himself as a possibility.

    One month until the trade deadline. It could be a very interesting month.
    Chris Mannix ‏@ChrisMannixSI • 14m •  More
    SI: Statistics suggest Joel Embiid will fully recover from foot surgery. But it could be 9-12 months before he plays http://bit.ly/1qwZuIB

  3. #348
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    So who were the targets of Doc's threats?


    Terry and Bass seem to be the current residents of his doghouse. Barbosa, maybe.

    Terry is the wrong fit for this team. Defensive effort is usually at a bare minimum level and his shot is not falling. Beyond that he is a "shoot first" mentality which often brings him into direct conflict with Doc's "make the extra pass" ball movement montra.

    Bass is a bit more complicated. He played well after being acquired. Was it a "career year" type thing? Are we seeing the real Brandon Bass now? Something is definitely amiss. Personally, I don't think he has been as bad as many of you make him out to have been. He's a convenient target because his name is not Pierce, KG, Rondo or Bradley.

    I'm not affraid to take the unpopular stance, Paul Pierce is a shadow of what he once was. His production has become erratic. Everyone goes through shooting slumps. When a player is in a shooting slump they need to contribute in other ways. (My major complaint with Terry) Pierce has done okay in terms of rebounding and assists, but has been nearly as inconsistent in those areas as he has been with his shooting. Defensively he has been stinking the place up and that is cause for concern. Defense is about desire and work ethic. It should be the most consistent part of a players game. Pierce's defense has been consistently absent in large measure and if your captain isn't closing out shooters, is consistently getting beat 1 v 1 or is missing rotations......


    Is there another likely candidate that Doc was calling out?
    Chris Mannix ‏@ChrisMannixSI • 14m •  More
    SI: Statistics suggest Joel Embiid will fully recover from foot surgery. But it could be 9-12 months before he plays http://bit.ly/1qwZuIB

  4. #349
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    Quote Originally Posted by Opalmerr View Post
    So who were the targets of Doc's threats?


    Terry and Bass seem to be the current residents of his doghouse. Barbosa, maybe.
    Can't see Barbosa... I just don't think Doc knows what to do with him...

    Quote Originally Posted by Opalmerr View Post
    Terry is the wrong fit for this team. Defensive effort is usually at a bare minimum level and his shot is not falling. Beyond that he is a "shoot first" mentality which often brings him into direct conflict with Doc's "make the extra pass" ball movement montra.
    If that's the case than DA and Doc should take the blame for that decision... But he's still a professional who at this point in his career should be able to adapt... I don't know what they were expecting from him coming from a run and gun Dallas team...


    Quote Originally Posted by Opalmerr View Post
    Bass is a bit more complicated. He played well after being acquired. Was it a "career year" type thing? Are we seeing the real Brandon Bass now? Something is definitely amiss. Personally, I don't think he has been as bad as many of you make him out to have been. He's a convenient target because his name is not Pierce, KG, Rondo or Bradley.
    Doc got the most out of Bass last season and his transition from reserve to starter worked out better than most expected... In reality though he is still a reserve who should only get 20mpg... His basketball IQ is showing its ugly head and I don't think he'll ever get Doc's system... I said it before the season started that Reggie Evans was the way to go and let Bass and Sully battle for the back-up PF... KG needed a brute who could handle the boards and the paint... You can see how much easier Sully makes KG's life under the rim...

    Quote Originally Posted by Opalmerr View Post
    I'm not affraid to take the unpopular stance, Paul Pierce is a shadow of what he once was. His production has become erratic. Everyone goes through shooting slumps. When a player is in a shooting slump they need to contribute in other ways. (My major complaint with Terry) Pierce has done okay in terms of rebounding and assists, but has been nearly as inconsistent in those areas as he has been with his shooting. Defensively he has been stinking the place up and that is cause for concern. Defense is about desire and work ethic. It should be the most consistent part of a players game. Pierce's defense has been consistently absent in large measure and if your captain isn't closing out shooters, is consistently getting beat 1 v 1 or is missing rotations......
    I said it in an earlier post, but maybe all the trade talk throughout the years has finally caught up to Pierce's psyche...

    Quote Originally Posted by Opalmerr View Post
    Is there another likely candidate that Doc was calling out?
    Himself... Nothing wrong with admitting a failure... He and DA bit off too much than they can chew with this roster...

    Player wise... Rondo...
    "I've never been scared of contact. Now I get to bring it, that's what I love to do, so I'm going to bring it."

    Reggie Lewis



    GET OFF YOUR HEELS BILL !!!

  5. #350
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    Rondo ... yeah.... He doesn't fit with Pierce right now especially when they run iso's for Pierce or otherwise put the ball in PP's hands. I alluded to that a couple of pages back. Rondo also cannot really assume the leadership mantle as long as Pierce is with the team.

    But Rondo does fit nicely with Bradley, Green, KG, Lee and even Sullinger. Cannot wait to see Melo with Rondo as I think there could be something special develop there.

    Rondo, like Bradley, Green, Lee, Sullinger, Melo are here for the future as much as they are for the present. They are the core going forward. (See post #342 above) Somewhere in the back pages I went so far as to state I believed it possible, perhaps even likely, that one of Pierce or Rondo would be traded. DAnny continues to state he doesn't want to make the same mistakes Red made so I'm thinking Pierce could go if DAnny stays true to his word.
    Last edited by Opalmerr; 01-21-2013 at 01:57 PM.
    Chris Mannix ‏@ChrisMannixSI • 14m •  More
    SI: Statistics suggest Joel Embiid will fully recover from foot surgery. But it could be 9-12 months before he plays http://bit.ly/1qwZuIB

  6. #351
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    How about try Green starting at the 4 and work around that little change to begin...??? That should give this team a whole new dynamic... When they start off horrible it's a complete catch-up the rest of the way... I mean it's so friggin frustrating seeing the same old line-up night in and night out...
    "I've never been scared of contact. Now I get to bring it, that's what I love to do, so I'm going to bring it."

    Reggie Lewis



    GET OFF YOUR HEELS BILL !!!

  7. #352
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forever35 View Post
    How about try Green starting at the 4 and work around that little change to begin...??? That should give this team a whole new dynamic... When they start off horrible it's a complete catch-up the rest of the way... I mean it's so friggin frustrating seeing the same old line-up night in and night out...
    I don't know, there is something to be said for consistency in the line up and first rotations.

    I do take exception with Doc's starters for the second halves of games. He needs to go with what worked in the first half. Lately that has been a compilation of 1st and 2nd units. Rondo, Bradley, Lee, Green, Sullinger, KG and sometimes Pierce. That's the 7 man rotation that seems to play most effectively together. Put the 5 that played best in the first half ad start them the second half.

    I think we both agree a significant part of the problem might be players needing to be reminded there is no entitlement to playing time, that playing time is earned. Not sure that has been or is the case for much of this season. That could include changes to the starting lineup.
    Chris Mannix ‏@ChrisMannixSI • 14m •  More
    SI: Statistics suggest Joel Embiid will fully recover from foot surgery. But it could be 9-12 months before he plays http://bit.ly/1qwZuIB

  8. #353
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    To be honest, the problems are Bass and Terry, however I don't see it being on them alone. Doc's mystery rotations and constant changing of players' minutes is clearly also having an effect.

    Doc is infamously known for taking players who are playing well out of rhythm. Bass was playing well earlier in the year, and suddenly not lately.

    Jason Terry had a stretch of 10 games from 12/12 through 12/30 where he was receiving 26-40 minutes. He scored in double digits in 8 out of those 10 games, and took double digit shot attempts in 7 of those.

    Take the next 10 games, from 1/2 through yesterday and you'll see that his minutes have plummeted from 26-40 down to 14-27 minutes. He only scored in double digits twice during that 10 game span, and only received 10 shot attempts in one of those games.

    Doc even said during this most recent 10 games stretch that he needs to get Terry more shot attempts because that's why we brought him in and that's what we need him for: offense off the bench. So, why on Earth does he know he has to do this, yet does something completely different and actually reduces his minutes AND shot attempts?? It's inexplicable to me. Doc should be taking a lot of this on his poor rotations, and inability to find what works and stick with it.


    "Stats are for losers. The final score is for winners." - Bill Belichick

  9. #354
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    Quote Originally Posted by 69centers View Post
    To be honest, the problems are Bass and Terry, however I don't see it being on them alone. Doc's mystery rotations and constant changing of players' minutes is clearly also having an effect.

    Doc is infamously known for taking players who are playing well out of rhythm. Bass was playing well earlier in the year, and suddenly not lately.

    Jason Terry had a stretch of 10 games from 12/12 through 12/30 where he was receiving 26-40 minutes. He scored in double digits in 8 out of those 10 games, and took double digit shot attempts in 7 of those.

    Take the next 10 games, from 1/2 through yesterday and you'll see that his minutes have plummeted from 26-40 down to 14-27 minutes. He only scored in double digits twice during that 10 game span, and only received 10 shot attempts in one of those games.

    Doc even said during this most recent 10 games stretch that he needs to get Terry more shot attempts because that's why we brought him in and that's what we need him for: offense off the bench. So, why on Earth does he know he has to do this, yet does something completely different and actually reduces his minutes AND shot attempts?? It's inexplicable to me. Doc should be taking a lot of this on his poor rotations, and inability to find what works and stick with it.
    Terry is just the odd man out now that Bradley has returned.

    The biggest mystery to me is why Terry was starting while Bradley was out?

    Rondo backed by Terry / Barbosa
    Bradley backed by Lee

    ^^ How I've always viewed the rotation.

    This becomes problematic for Jason Terry as he needs minutes / the ball / shots to be most effective. Rondo dominates the ball on this team and when he does not it is in Pierce's hands. Terry is not a catch and shoot player ala Ray Allen. I thought it was an odd signing at the time and continue to think so to this day. Rondo is playing 37 mins / game leaving 11 for his back up. Barbosa type minutes, not Terry type minutes.

    Combine Bass and Terry to get $11 M to play with in a trade.
    Chris Mannix ‏@ChrisMannixSI • 14m •  More
    SI: Statistics suggest Joel Embiid will fully recover from foot surgery. But it could be 9-12 months before he plays http://bit.ly/1qwZuIB

  10. #355
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    Keep the guys that can run and are athletic should stay, the older guys should go (Terry, Bass). I'd love to see PP gone, but that seems unlikely. I think it may be time for KG to go too, but he's also a very tough move.

    I don't suggest this for the playoffs, any real success in those with our team or whatever we could get in trade this year is a complete 100% pipe dream. It's all about the future and getting there ASAP.

    Ainge and/or the owners screwed up by not starting this already. It could be argued that the rebuild should have started after the 2010 season, but for sure should have started after 2011. This team is now in hell: a 34-48 win team that can't win in the playoffs and can't get draft picks for franchise players, with big money tied up on old players in rapid decline.

    Thanks Danny, you said you wouldn't let the end of the Bird years play out, and it is.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  11. #356
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    Quote Originally Posted by Opalmerr View Post
    Terry is just the odd man out now that Bradley has returned.

    The biggest mystery to me is why Terry was starting while Bradley was out?

    Rondo backed by Terry / Barbosa
    Bradley backed by Lee

    ^^ How I've always viewed the rotation.

    This becomes problematic for Jason Terry as he needs minutes / the ball / shots to be most effective. Rondo dominates the ball on this team and when he does not it is in Pierce's hands. Terry is not a catch and shoot player ala Ray Allen. I thought it was an odd signing at the time and continue to think so to this day. Rondo is playing 37 mins / game leaving 11 for his back up. Barbosa type minutes, not Terry type minutes.

    Combine Bass and Terry to get $11 M to play with in a trade.
    Yup... And how does anyone think Terry can get on the right track...??? He's a jump shooter and that's it... So for Doc to get him going means just getting him more looks and piling up his minutes... At least Ray Ray gave you some baseline drives and a helluva better job on the defensive end...

    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    Keep the guys that can run and are athletic should stay, the older guys should go (Terry, Bass). I'd love to see PP gone, but that seems unlikely. I think it may be time for KG to go too, but he's also a very tough move.
    I won't shed a tear if any of that happened... Already been through a 15 and a 19 win season...
    "I've never been scared of contact. Now I get to bring it, that's what I love to do, so I'm going to bring it."

    Reggie Lewis



    GET OFF YOUR HEELS BILL !!!

  12. #357
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    Let's say the C's were to decide to trade Bass $6 M & Terry $5 M for a big man.

    Who might they be able to get?

    1) They could send out $11 M and take back a bit less in money gaining a small bit more flexibility
    2) Could receive back 1 or more players.
    3) Other?
    Last edited by Opalmerr; 01-21-2013 at 08:13 PM.
    Chris Mannix ‏@ChrisMannixSI • 14m •  More
    SI: Statistics suggest Joel Embiid will fully recover from foot surgery. But it could be 9-12 months before he plays http://bit.ly/1qwZuIB

  13. #358
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    Bargnani is all I can think of

    We'd gain something like $1M/yr in cap relief but we'd still be paying for 3 years. They are desperate to move him but I don't think it helps either team

  14. #359
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    I'm sick of all this talk of a big. Look what Dwight Howard is doing for the Lakers. NOTHING. There is no guarantee that a big is what will save this team. We need a scorer; 3 point threat; or someone to spark our offense when we need it.


    "Stats are for losers. The final score is for winners." - Bill Belichick

  15. #360
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    That's anecdotal, Howard is having a terrible year

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