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  1. #271
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    You guys are missing the point of Terry's role. He wasn't brought here for his defense. He is replacing Ray as a big shot making guy late in games and playoff time. Ray's defense was no better and I didn't see everyone picking it apart the last few years.

    Terry is older and is not going to exert himself on the defensive end during the regular season. Come playoff time, we'll need his clutch shooting and playoff experience, because we won't get it from Courtney Lee. Terry played defense in the playoffs when he had to (see Dallas' 2011 title run).

    With Bradley back, it's Lee we no longer need, not Terry.


    "Stats are for losers. The final score is for winners." - Bill Belichick

  2. #272
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    Quote Originally Posted by 69centers View Post
    You guys are missing the point of Terry's role. He wasn't brought here for his defense. He is replacing Ray as a big shot making guy late in games and playoff time. Ray's defense was no better and I didn't see everyone picking it apart the last few years.

    Terry is older and is not going to exert himself on the defensive end during the regular season. Come playoff time, we'll need his clutch shooting and playoff experience, because we won't get it from Courtney Lee. Terry played defense in the playoffs when he had to (see Dallas' 2011 title run).

    With Bradley back, it's Lee we no longer need, not Terry.
    1) Ray was a more than capable defender until the last couple of years. And I repeatedly noted his slippage in this area.

    2) If Terry doesn't demonstrate an ability to stay in front of his man, the Celtics are unlikely to make the playoffs.

    3) Terry entered the game last night and was torched immediately. Conley gets an assist off penetration when he blew right by Terry. Conley went backdoor for a layup then hit a 3 on Terry for a quick 5 points. On a succeeding possession he was back doored again with only a poor pass to Conley preventing another layup.

    When matched on Tony Allen he stood and watched from the #1 rebound position as his man came from the 3 point arc and slammed home a follow. Never even tried to jump for the rebound. Just stood there as Allen blew by and over him. On rotations he was "in the neighborhood" but never stepped in on help to take a charge, give a foul or anything constructive... he stood and watched.

    This from a veteran player who knows his team is struggling on the defensive end. Yeah, I just exude confidence he is going to flip a switch and become an average defender when and if the Celtics make the playoffs. Sorry, not buying this at all.

    Meanwhile, Doc plays Lee for 4:17 seconds in his first stretch. He was 2-2 from the floor with both baskets coming on drives to the basket and left with a solid +4.

    This is that stretch where Terry played almost 13 minutes and the C's went from being up 1 after the first quarter to being down 9 at halftime. If you get a chance, rewatch the game with particular attention to how it changed when Bradley went out and Terry came in during the first half. Then tell me again how Lee's defense at that point would not have been better than Terry's offense. Terry was 1-2 during that stretch, if I recall correctly, but got lit up by Conley. When he left the game the C's were down 6. His man was largely responsible for the difference. And it's been like this every damn game.
    Last edited by Opalmerr; 01-03-2013 at 07:12 AM.
    Chris Mannix ‏@ChrisMannixSI 14m  More
    SI: Statistics suggest Joel Embiid will fully recover from foot surgery. But it could be 9-12 months before he plays http://bit.ly/1qwZuIB

  3. #273
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    Quote Originally Posted by 69centers View Post
    They won't trade Bradley.
    Maybe not.....

    Wyc/ Danny would trade anyone that would make this team better now and future. Trust me

    I love Bradley, I like him a lot.....but Celtics must make a move, not sure a filler/ top 25-30/ 5 spot makes you that much better.

    To get someone like Cousins you must give up really good players.

    LARRY BIRD
    NBA WORLD CHAMPION 1981,1984,1986

    " The greatest basketball player and mind of all time. "

  4. #274
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    All we have to go on is Ainge's past record.

    Despite the rumors we hear after failed trades go down, he had a million chances to trade Rondo, Ray, Pierce, probably KG too. And he never did. Maybe the pieces weren't right. But if he's proven anything it's that he will never trade a player he really likes unless they are certain to leave the team anyway. Aka Perkins.

    Hope I'm wrong, but the team was nearly this awful last year and Ainge pretty much slept through the trade deadline. Remember how happy we were when Ryan Hollins was signed? lol

  5. #275
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    This is pretty telling coming from Doc.... then again, it is pretty telling coming from Doc.

    “When Jason Terry is on the floor you’ve gotta run plays for Jason Terry,” Rivers said. I mean, what else would you have him on the floor for? To play defense? That’s something we talk about all the time and it’s not getting through, so I told them [Wednesday] night that I will be the play caller for that group for a while now.”
    Chris Mannix ‏@ChrisMannixSI 14m  More
    SI: Statistics suggest Joel Embiid will fully recover from foot surgery. But it could be 9-12 months before he plays http://bit.ly/1qwZuIB

  6. #276
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    Since November 28th, (17 games) the Celtics have sported the second worst offensive efficiency (97 points per 100 possessions) in the entire NBA, second to just the Washington Wizards. That means they’ve been scoring at a worse rate than offensive juggernauts such as the Cleveland Cavaliers, New Orleans Hornets, and the Charlotte Bobcats for more than half the season now.
    Over on celticshub

    Yiiikes

  7. #277
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    Quote Originally Posted by Opalmerr View Post
    This is that stretch where Terry played almost 13 minutes and the C's went from being up 1 after the first quarter to being down 9 at halftime. If you get a chance, rewatch the game with particular attention to how it changed when Bradley went out and Terry came in during the first half. Then tell me again how Lee's defense at that point would not have been better than Terry's offense. Terry was 1-2 during that stretch, if I recall correctly, but got lit up by Conley. When he left the game the C's were down 6. His man was largely responsible for the difference. And it's been like this every damn game.
    Doc's remarks yesterday about Terry sum it up best, and reiterate my point of how valuable Terry is for Offense and NOT defense:

    "I was disappointed last night in me and the team. When Jason Terry is on the floor, you gotta run plays for Jason Terry," said Rivers. "What else would you have him on the floor for? To play defense? That’s something we talk about all the time and it’s not getting through. I told him last night, I’ll be the play-caller for that [second unit] for a while now. Because whenever Jason Terry comes on the floor, we should run plays for Jason Terry. And it took us until eight minutes left in the fourth quarter to realize that last night. And that’s too late. Then during the stretch he was on [the floor] in the first half, he was getting scored on and didn’t touch the ball. If you can’t get offense out of him, why is he out there?"
    Link

    He's here for offense and Doc admits he has to use him at what he does best. He will be a huge asset come playoff time, a way bigger piece than Lee can ever be.


    "Stats are for losers. The final score is for winners." - Bill Belichick

  8. #278
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    Quote Originally Posted by 69centers View Post
    Doc's remarks yesterday about Terry sum it up best, and reiterate my point of how valuable Terry is for Offense and NOT defense:



    Link

    He's here for offense and Doc admits he has to use him at what he does best. He will be a huge asset come playoff time, a way bigger piece than Lee can ever be.
    Easiest response ever.... Defense wins Championships.


    Or in the words of Sun Tzu..... Invincibilty lies in the defense; the possibility of victory in the attack.
    Chris Mannix ‏@ChrisMannixSI 14m  More
    SI: Statistics suggest Joel Embiid will fully recover from foot surgery. But it could be 9-12 months before he plays http://bit.ly/1qwZuIB

  9. #279
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    I won't start dipping into the koolaid quite yet but that was a great defensive stand. Effort from every guy on the floor is all it takes

  10. #280
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    It wasn't pretty. One of the ugliest blowout wins I can remember. But for the first time this season I think they actually have something to build on. This was Doc's best game of the season.

    Distribution of minutes was excellent.
    Starting lineup and rotations were excellent.

    Lee and Sullinger off the bench were sensational tonight.

    Terry (and Bass) need to be the primary trade bait for a big.

    Lee and Barbosa only played about 5 minutes together, but it is obvious that enjoy playing with one another. The chemistry is there. If Terry's role is supposed to be offense off the bench, Barbosa can do that and, and, provide better defense doing it. He just brings energy off the bench.

    Collins ... played 15+ minutes off the bench... and you know what? He did ok. Not sure he can do that every night, but lt's give him credit for tonight.

    CAN THEY STRING TWO GOOD PERFORMANCES IN A ROW TOGETHER?

    Doesn't even necessarily have to be a win. Just build on this.
    Last edited by Opalmerr; 01-04-2013 at 10:43 PM.
    Chris Mannix ‏@ChrisMannixSI 14m  More
    SI: Statistics suggest Joel Embiid will fully recover from foot surgery. But it could be 9-12 months before he plays http://bit.ly/1qwZuIB

  11. #281
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    Quote Originally Posted by xk4 View Post
    I won't start dipping into the koolaid quite yet but that was a great defensive stand. Effort from every guy on the floor is all it takes
    x10
    Chris Mannix ‏@ChrisMannixSI 14m  More
    SI: Statistics suggest Joel Embiid will fully recover from foot surgery. But it could be 9-12 months before he plays http://bit.ly/1qwZuIB

  12. #282
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    Indiana is a horrible offensive team and George Hill didn't play so I'm on alert cause the same happened when we blew out Brooklyn and then got spanked the next 4 games...

    Right now Bass is the laggard for this team... If he gets his reserve role mentality back to where it was in the past he could really add something... Right now he's having to many brain farts...
    "I've never been scared of contact. Now I get to bring it, that's what I love to do, so I'm going to bring it."

    Reggie Lewis



    GET OFF YOUR HEELS BILL !!!

  13. #283
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    Yeah, it was a blowout win against the Pacers. Pacers are 19-14(?) though.

    There were several positives aside from the score to take from last nights effort.That's encouraging. They don't have to win in Atl. Just don't lose momentum, continue to build on what they have accomplished these last two games. Just keep progressing and in another week of so when Bradley has his game legs back and starts hitting his shots we could see a real move from them.
    Chris Mannix ‏@ChrisMannixSI 14m  More
    SI: Statistics suggest Joel Embiid will fully recover from foot surgery. But it could be 9-12 months before he plays http://bit.ly/1qwZuIB

  14. #284
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    Dont get too hyped everyone. This is how its been all season, 1 step forward and 2 steps back. Or did you guys forget xmas already?

  15. #285
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    How long will it take?

    I think the time might have arrived last night. Of course, we will not know conclusively for some time, but Paul Pierce taking control of the half-time locker room and spurring the second half comeback could have far reaching and long lasting impact.

    Not to be lost in the celebration of last nights win is Doc's 180 in how he has been coaching this group. He has really struggled to set rotations, define roles and give the players his confidence in their ability to perform in the role he asks them to fill. Doc went into playoff mode for the second half last night - shortened rotation and the starters played big minutes without concern of saving them for ... something that might never come had they not gone balls to the wall.

    As much as I have harped on Jason Terry I need to say he demonstrated an ability to play defense in the second half.

    I inserted that comment here, because the second half is how this team was expected to perform. At least, that has been my expectation for them and I think if you would ask them, they would say it is their expectation for themselves. But one half of basketball played the way it is supposed to be played does not a season make. There is room for improvement, especially from the bench.

    Two consecutive wins over teams with winning records. It could be a turning point. The situation was so bad, I didn't think last nights game was a "must win". It was only important to show consistency in effort and performance, to build in those regards off the performance against Indiana. Last night's second half may have moved that timetable up. Yes, establishing consistnecy and maintaining an acceptable level of collective effort remains important but now there is added significance to the next game. Monday at NY Knicks is suddenly a big game. A win would be huge but sustaining the effort we have seen in 6 of the last 8 quarters is crucial, even critical for this season.
    Chris Mannix ‏@ChrisMannixSI 14m  More
    SI: Statistics suggest Joel Embiid will fully recover from foot surgery. But it could be 9-12 months before he plays http://bit.ly/1qwZuIB

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