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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1972 Cubs View Post
    Based on last off-season I would guess anything 3+ years and over 7+ million would knock him out of consideration. His age also does not fit into paying for future performance.
    Think the Cubs told them before he left what they wanted to do moving forward. Also only way he gets a 3 year deal here is if the third was a club option. Just cause a player is getting older does not mean the performance will decline IE...R.A. Dickey might win the CY Young. So like I said months ago you can't twist and keep reusing what the FO said paying for past performance and use it anyway you see fit. There is a long article that shows exactly what the front office plans to do so there is really no need for you to keep spilling out the same Front Office Talking Points from this time last year.
    Welcome Tyler Kolek or Brady Aiken or Carlos Rodon if not one of them say hello To Alex Jackson.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1972 Cubs View Post
    Maybe paying a salary based on past performance when age indicates his performance historically will decline. I'm not sure what makes you think the Cubs are in a market for 36 year old pitchers that most likely will get better offers elswhere.
    Maybe just maybe because they said they were?
    Welcome Tyler Kolek or Brady Aiken or Carlos Rodon if not one of them say hello To Alex Jackson.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by ABE32 View Post
    Maybe just maybe because they said they were?
    Where has the front office said they are going for pitchers in their 30's ???

  4. #49
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    Dan Haren; they literally just did it
    Save the kittens, ignore sbs' posts
    Red Sox hater since 10/2011

    It is anyway, not anyways.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1972 Cubs View Post
    Where has the front office said they are going for pitchers in their 30's ???
    They are going for any player young or old who they can get on a short term deal. Especially if he makes the product on the field better and not to mention can potentially bring in prospects if the team is bad again.
    "Too big, too strong, too fast, too good"

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlciganek View Post
    Get over Delgado people, seriously its been 4 months now! We need pitching and Demp was having a great year for us before he was traded. Will he be that great again next year? Probably not, but why we wouldn't want a player who WANTS to play for a Cubs team that is clearly not going to be good the next couple of years. We need pitching, he's a quality pitcher. Marcum, Liriano, Villinueva are bigger risks, if you think we just sign them and they have breakout a breakout season like Maholm and we get a huge return.

    Sign Demp without a NTC but with the promise of not trading him so you prevent other players from wanting a trade.
    Good luck with that. It's not happening and everyone knows it. He'd be stupid to come back.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2323 View Post
    Good luck with that. It's not happening and everyone knows it. He'd be stupid to come back.
    No, he wouldn't.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1972 Cubs View Post
    Where has the front office said they are going for pitchers in their 30's ???
    They don't have to say it...you like to use what people say as the gospel... look at the actual signings and the actions. Just take a look at who they are pursuing and who they have signed for the MLB roster. All of them are over 30 Marcum,Dempster,Haren and Scott Baker or in the case of Mcarthy and Anibal Sanchez soon to be 30.
    Welcome Tyler Kolek or Brady Aiken or Carlos Rodon if not one of them say hello To Alex Jackson.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by ABE32 View Post
    They don't have to say it...you like to use what people say as the gospel... look at the actual signings and the actions. Just take a look at who they are pursuing and who they have signed for the MLB roster. All of them are over 30 Marcum,Dempster,Haren and Scott Baker or in the case of Mcarthy and Anibal Sanchez soon to be 30.
    The Cubs are working on 2 fronts - filling needs for short term and looking for core players long term.

    The over 30 pitchers will be signed on 1 or 2 year deals with the idea they can be flipped at the deadline if the team is out of the race. So while you are right that the team is loking to plug in a couple veterans into the rotation they really are not part of the long term plans. I just don't see the signing of stop gap players as progress toward winning a World Series.

    Now if the Cubs could make a trade for a player like Hellickson he would fit the profile of filling the short term and long term goals. Hopefully we can get a couple pitchers/position players this off-season that can be part of a long term build and start improving the mahor league club.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1972 Cubs View Post
    The Cubs are working on 2 fronts - filling needs for short term and looking for core players long term.

    The over 30 pitchers will be signed on 1 or 2 year deals with the idea they can be flipped at the deadline if the team is out of the race. So while you are right that the team is loking to plug in a couple veterans into the rotation they really are not part of the long term plans. I just don't see the signing of stop gap players as progress toward winning a World Series.

    Now if the Cubs could make a trade for a player like Hellickson he would fit the profile of filling the short term and long term goals. Hopefully we can get a couple pitchers/position players this off-season that can be part of a long term build and start improving the mahor league club.
    It's easier said than done to get players who can be part of a long term build, especially this year. You're also eliminating the possibility that these "stop gap players" are traded at the deadline to add young players that could eventually be part of the long term team.

    Getting Hellickson most likely costs the cubs one of their top 3 or 4 prospects, which helps short term but may hurt them long term.

    Of free agents that are available this year, which are ones that would count as your "long term" players? Greinke, Upton, maybe Edwin Jackson, Is Brandon McCarthy, or is he stop gap?

    I'm really sick of these posts that just make blanket criticism without providing reasoning or alternative suggestion.
    Last edited by gaughan333; 11-06-2012 at 10:04 AM.
    Save the kittens, ignore sbs' posts
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  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by gaughan333 View Post
    It's easier said than done to get players who can be part of a long term build, especially this year. You're also eliminating the possibility that these "stop gap players" are traded at the deadline to add young players that could eventually be part of the long term team.

    Getting Hellickson most likely costs the cubs one of their top 3 or 4 prospects, which helps short term but may hurt them long term.

    Of free agents that are available this year, which are ones that would count as your "long term" players? Greinke, Upton, maybe Edwin Jackson, Is Brandon McCarthy, or is he stop gap?

    I'm really sick of these posts that just make blanket criticism without providing reasoning or alternative suggestion.
    Getting a proven young major league talent that can help for multiple years at the cost of prospects still helps you long term. Prospects may never reach the majors or if they do never reach their ceiling. Taking more of a sure thing over rolling dice with prospects is a strategy many teams use to build the major league team successfully.

    Signing or trading for players you plan on keeping for more than 4+ years fit the long term plan.

    What is so difficult about not liking the strategy of signing or trading for players with the intention of flipping at the deadline.

  12. #57
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    I give up... me surrender.
    Welcome Tyler Kolek or Brady Aiken or Carlos Rodon if not one of them say hello To Alex Jackson.

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by ABE32 View Post
    I give up... me surrender.
    You agree with the stop gap signings like last years Maholm / Dejesus while I don't agree with the sign/trade for players to hope to flip for prospects that may help a few years down the road strategy.

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1972 Cubs View Post
    You agree with the stop gap signings like last years Maholm / Dejesus while I don't agree with the sign/trade for players to hope to flip for prospects that may help a few years down the road strategy.
    If it's to rid yourself of a contract that you don't want like (MARMOL's) it's addition by subtraction as you hope Haren can net you prospects or at leasts he eats up some innings for you for the next couple of years. The ultimate goal is to strengthen toe organazation as a whole NO MATTER how you get there.
    Welcome Tyler Kolek or Brady Aiken or Carlos Rodon if not one of them say hello To Alex Jackson.

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1972 Cubs View Post
    Getting a proven young major league talent that can help for multiple years at the cost of prospects still helps you long term. Prospects may never reach the majors or if they do never reach their ceiling. Taking more of a sure thing over rolling dice with prospects is a strategy many teams use to build the major league team successfully.

    Signing or trading for players you plan on keeping for more than 4+ years fit the long term plan.

    What is so difficult about not liking the strategy of signing or trading for players with the intention of flipping at the deadline.
    1. That's why I said may.
    2. Teams often use this when they are closer to competing
    3. You don't take into account that these kind of moves may add those players that help going forward.

    Improving an organization is important as well as improving a major league roster
    Save the kittens, ignore sbs' posts
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