Braves are a sleeping giant.

[Fly]

someone just said him and hamilton in the same sentence. i'm still chuckling at that...

(since 2009):
Hamilton vs. Swisher
18.3 fWAR | 15 fWAR
.305 AVG | .268 AVG
.360 OBP | .367 OBP
.555 SLG | .483 SLG
110 HR | 105 HR
136 OPS+ | 124 OPS+

But you're right, I guess they can't even be mentioned in the same sentence.

[HowFit]

(since 2009):
Hamilton vs. Swisher
18.3 fWAR | 15 fWAR
.305 AVG | .268 AVG
.360 OBP | .367 OBP
.555 SLG | .483 SLG
110 HR | 105 HR
136 OPS+ | 124 OPS+

But you're right, I guess they can't even be mentioned in the same sentence.

Interesting comparison...

[chipurmunki]

sorry, i don't buy into that war crap. and arguing that swisher is on the same level as or close to hamilton because he walks a little more is akin, in my mind, to uggla being worth 13 mil because 'he gets on base.'

[BRAVE KID]

(since 2009):
Hamilton vs. Swisher
18.3 fWAR | 15 fWAR
.305 AVG | .268 AVG
.360 OBP | .367 OBP
.555 SLG | .483 SLG
110 HR | 105 HR
136 OPS+ | 124 OPS+

But you're right, I guess they can't even be mentioned in the same sentence.

That is pretty interesting but have to imagine both are going to get paid no matter what.

but on a more important note..PUPPIES!!!

[SB75]

(since 2009):
Hamilton vs. Swisher
18.3 fWAR | 15 fWAR
.305 AVG | .268 AVG
.360 OBP | .367 OBP
.555 SLG | .483 SLG
110 HR | 105 HR
136 OPS+ | 124 OPS+

But you're right, I guess they can't even be mentioned in the same sentence.

70+ points in slugging %...... Would lend to Josh being superior, but a very intriguing comparison...... At the end of the day, I don't fear Nick's bat. That's not saying it's not good, just that I would not fear him as the big bat in the line-up. Josh's I would fear.

[Fly]

sorry, i don't buy into that war crap. and arguing that swisher is on the same level as or close to hamilton because he walks a little more is akin, in my mind, to uggla being worth 13 mil because 'he gets on base.'

Chipurmunki AKA the guy who doesn't believe in walks.

[vtgriff09]

First of all, I think that Swisher is completely average at this point in his career. Power numbers are continually falling, average is falling, defensive metrics are falling, and you would be removing him from a highly protected lineup and a highly offensive park. He is a good player, but in the conversation of what he is going to cost compared to other people that make that sort of money---average is fair.

Second, I think Minor had a great 2nd half, is a no brainer for the rotation, and isn't going anywhere. Hanson though could be shipped, and would be smart to do so. Minor's whip and baa do not suggest that he is going to be worse. Yeah, he does not pitch grounders like most guys with that changeup and lack of velocity....but he is figuring it out more and more and made solid adjustments last yr---no reason to think that he will not continue to do so.

Lastly, I was shocked at the mlbtraderumors saying Hamilton is intriguing for Braves. That is a pretty reputable website, and the Braves name being mentioned (who are usually fairly quiet) means they may be taking serious interest. Hamilton has projected at 7 for 175. Not sure if we will do that, but it would be interesting. Take off $10 mill a yr and you an get BJ Upton and then another big bat. I'd be fine giving Swisher 4 yrs.

[robdizzle3]

Yeah... not gonna get much support in an evaluation of a rotation when you leave out their ace.

I'm actually excited to see what Minor will do next season and have to give the Braves some credit for sticking with him. His ERA was hovering at 7.00 after his first 10 starts... but after a better June and a July/August/September with ERA's of 1.98., 3.57 and 0.87 he could be in line for a great 2013 and make himself a legitimate #3 starter with hope for being #2 caliber.

I very much agree with this.. Minor pitched very well late and showed he can handcuff some good lineups.. Hes determined to be taken seriously and I dont see how he doesnt improve next season.

[HowFit]

Hamilton asking 7yrs 175 million LOL, no thanks!

[SB75]

^^^ I agree! I'll pass at that price. Was that on ESPN or something?

[rtgthree]

First of all, I think that Swisher is completely average at this point in his career. Power numbers are continually falling, average is falling, defensive metrics are falling, and you would be removing him from a highly protected lineup and a highly offensive park. He is a good player, but in the conversation of what he is going to cost compared to other people that make that sort of money---average is fair.

I just really don't see where you're getting the notion that Swisher is average. His TAvs the last four years have been .291, .301, .289, and .290. League average is .260. Even for a corner outfielder, those figures are well above average. And I don't see any decline in there either; if Swisher isn't a model of consistency, I'm not sure who is.

Isolated power: .249, .223, .188, .201
Batting average: .249, .288, .260, .272
UZR/150: -3.0, 0.9, 8.8, 3.4

If there's a decline trend, I really don't see it. Lineup protection is a myth, and I wouldn't be the first poster to point out that he's been a better hitter away from Yankee Stadium than at home. He's not in line for more than a four-year deal at perhaps $14 million per season, and at that price he might well be the best value on the entire free-agent market.

Second, I think Minor had a great 2nd half, is a no brainer for the rotation, and isn't going anywhere. Hanson though could be shipped, and would be smart to do so. Minor's whip and baa do not suggest that he is going to be worse. Yeah, he does not pitch grounders like most guys with that changeup and lack of velocity....but he is figuring it out more and more and made solid adjustments last yr---no reason to think that he will not continue to do so.

I think Minor had a great second half as well, but I don't think it's sustainable. His BAA is skewed by a ridiculously low BABIP (.227 in the second half), and his WHIP will rise accordingly. Plus, neither of those stats capture the number of extra-base hits he's going to give up as a result of his HR/FB rate going back to normal and the fact that as he gives up more hits, he's going to face more batters (and thus have more opportunities to give up gopher balls). He did make some good adjustments, but adjustments can't make you sustainably lucky. Don't get me wrong: he's still a valuable asset. In fact, he's more valuable than Tommy Hanson, who I advocate keeping. The difference is that Hanson's value is perceived to be even lower than it actually is, and Minor's is perceived to be higher. You always sell the overvalued asset, not the undervalued one.

Lastly, I was shocked at the mlbtraderumors saying Hamilton is intriguing for Braves. That is a pretty reputable website, and the Braves name being mentioned (who are usually fairly quiet) means they may be taking serious interest. Hamilton has projected at 7 for 175. Not sure if we will do that, but it would be interesting.

It's really important to understand what MLB Trade Rumors does and does not do. It's one of my favorite sites on the Web, but all they do is post links to other sources. They are not "reputable" because they don't create any content. They are just an aggregator. So, just because MLBTR posts a rumor does not make the rumor true or valid. You have to read the source material to assess the validity, and in the case of this particular article, it's just a writer basically saying that the Braves know Josh Hamilton is a good baseball player. It then goes on to say that there's pretty much zero chance the Braves will actually sign Hamilton.

So, as awesome as MLBTR is as a resource, it's crucial to investigate every rumor in detail and check the sources and what they actually say. And Josh Hamilton is still highly, highly unlikely to come to Atlanta, except on road trips.

I very much agree with this.. Minor pitched very well late and showed he can handcuff some good lineups.. Hes determined to be taken seriously and I dont see how he doesnt improve next season.

I see lots of ways he doesn't improve next season. BABIP goes back to normal, HR/FB rate goes back to normal, and you have yourself a very valuable young lefty with an ERA closer to 4.00 than to 3.00. See above for a more detailed explanation.

Hamilton asking 7yrs 175 million LOL, no thanks!

I pity the team that hands Josh Hamilton that contract. I don't see him getting anywhere close to seven years, but if it happens, Lord have mercy.

[chipurmunki]

wrong. aka, the guy who doesn't believe walks is worth 13 million...

[Fly]

wrong. aka, the guy who doesn't believe walks is worth 13 million...

Yes, because walks are the only thing that Swisher/Uggla provide. Nice analysis.

[mattlogan23]

any objections to us trading for Dexter Fowler?

[Fly]

any objections to us trading for Dexter Fowler?

Yeah, he blows on the road