Jrue Holiday signed 4 year 41 million dollar contract ext.

[Swashcuff]

How many different ways does it need to be explained that part of the reason Jrue didn't get many 20 point games is that he played for Collins? And if being bigger, stronger, and more athletic doesn't factor into the post season, what game are you watching? I realize it's not arm wrestling. I also realize that things slow down and get way more physical in the post season often times. I also realize that a guy like Curry or Lawson will eventually be matched up in a 7 game series with guys of similar skill level who are bigger, stronger, more athletic.



When his number has been dialed by the coach, he has been better at the things I am looking for before I give some young guard a 10 mil + contract. How many 20 point games a young guard has on bad to mediocre teams is not a very strong indicator of what they truly are in the NBA when playing a bigger role.

What is it with you and Myles? Game Score is not indicative of scoring but rather a player's entire statistical output as it relates to his box score production.

GmSc
Game Score; the formula is PTS + 0.4 * FG - 0.7 * FGA - 0.4*(FTA - FT) + 0.7 * ORB + 0.3 * DRB + STL + 0.7 * AST + 0.7 * BLK - 0.4 * PF - TOV. Game Score was created by John Hollinger to give a rough measure of a player's productivity for a single game. The scale is similar to that of points scored, i.e., 40 is an outstanding performance, 10 is an average performance, etc

.

So do you now understand what is game score? You and Myles both said its scoring and that statement couldn't be more ignorant. I mean seriously before trying to attack my argument do some research on what is being discussed.

At no point did I say anything about size and strength not being important but fact is it is less important than the actual PLAY of the player. Their production on the floor their ability to raise their game come playoff time. Karl Malone was bigger stronger and better defensively than Charles Barkley in the post season. That however didn't make him a better post season performer than Chuck. It just meant he had better physical attributes.

Size is important in basketball hell its important in every contact sport however size isn't the most important thing there is. Production is. If you don't understand that I don't know what game you're watching.

[Swashcuff]

Thank you!

I feel the same way.

I think jrue is better. Right now. Today. It comes from watching him play. When he started I saw he was very methodical and deliberate with the way he went to the basket. He was training himself to make his takes automatic and eventually fluid. That's where he currently is. And there are no holes in his game. You keep wanting to make it about provable stats. That's not how the game works otherwise harden never gets 80 mil. It's about being able to evaluate and project a player based on his tools, work ethic, attitude and demeanor. Curry and Lawson are almost finish finished products. They aren't getting any better. They were jusornv easy nba ready when they were drafted. And defense keeps getting brushed aside as if its some fringe skillsets. It's HALF the game.

I've paid attention to all the points

Actually that's completely untrue. Beyond a shadow of a doubt and anyone who follows the league would know that.

Here is a little about Daryl Morey the Houston Rockets General Manager who was on record of saying that he coveted James Hardn as a played because of his statistical production.

While with the Celtics, basketball operations was a key part of his responsibilities, including the development of analytical methods and technology to enhance basketball decisions related to the draft, trades, free agency and advance scouting of opponents for the coaching staff. His hiring follows the recent Moneyball trend of adding more advanced statistical-based analysis to the traditional use of qualitative scouting and basic statistics. Several teams have hired executives with non-traditional basketball backgrounds, but the Rockets are the first NBA team to hire a general manager in this vein.

He has long been an advocate using stats in scouting a player (as well as the 29 other teams in the NBA as of last season) and as a result saw Harden's true potential. There is a reason why he was willing to pay Asik among other players.

What you guys don't get is that you keep speaking over and over and over and over and over and over and over about what you've seen Jrue do. I've seen the very same you guys saw guess what though I've also seen Curry do things Jrue has yet to show the ability to do, I've also seen Lawson do things that Jrue is yet to do.

You saying Jrue has no holes in his game shows anyone with a rational mind for basketball that you are in zero position to accurately assess a player's ability. There is one PG in the NBA that has no holes in his game and that's Chris Paul.

Why don't you guys let Jrue develop for crying out loud instead of speaking of him like he's already hit his full potential. You guys do this for every player and when they fail to reach your foolish expectations you're the first to thrash them.

[wannabGM]

Oh sweet Jesus. Whether talking about game score, TS%, ppg, etc....


HE PLAYED FOR FRIGGIN DOUG COLLINS AS A YOUNG DEVELOPING PLAYER.

Please wrap your mind around the possibility that Doug, his system, and the situation Jrue was in last season put a statistical damper on Jrue in all or most of those categories. Please, for the love of God.

[Swashcuff]

Oh sweet Jesus. Whether talking about game score, TS%, ppg, etc....


HE PLAYED FOR FRIGGIN DOUG COLLINS AS A YOUNG DEVELOPING PLAYER.

Please wrap your mind around the possibility that Doug, his system, and the situation Jrue was in last season put a statistical damper on Jrue in all or most of those categories. Please, for the love of God.

Doug made Jrue take bad shots, its Doug's fault Jrue isn't good and initiate contact when driving to the basket, its Doug's fault Jrue's play making ability and court vision was sub par

Now let's ignore everything else and just blame Doug right? One person is saying Jrue's call trumps Doug's and the other is saying that Jrue wasn't as good as other statistically because of Doug but when Jrue became just the 5th player in the history of the league 20 years or younger to average 14, 4 and 6.5 UNDER Doug Collins and the very next season see his #s outside of his 3 point shooting take a hit across the board.

Ty Lawson has played behind Chauncey Billups and has had to share duties with Andre Miller. Steph Curry has had to go through 2 coaching changes and dealing with a back court mating that was hogging the ball and draining his team's offensive efficiency. See I can give reasoning as to why other players were not as good as they could have been.

Jrue is younger and has GREAT upside he is getting there but thus far in his career he hasn't been better than those other players and it doesn't take a basketball expert with the eye of a hawk to see it. Optimistically watch the games and you'll see the potential is there but the other players have just outproduce him thus far.

[BChydro86]

Doug does seem to love bad shots.... Its kind of been his thing for 3 years now

[wannabGM]

Jrue's numbers took a hit the last year mostly because Collins started playing more through the high post. Jrue's regression last season was more fallacy than truth.

His game isn't perfect. But he displayed as the season went on last year that he not only corrected the late game turnover issue but also could score or get to the line when he needs to. There are a few too many pull up jumpers for my liking. But he can get to the line when necessary.

[wannabGM]

Doug does seem to love bad shots.... Its kind of been his thing for 3 years now

It hit an all time nadar last year. At least this year it's more open catch and shoot 3 pointers.

But yes, you are correct. He prefers bad shots to turnovers. So do I. Where I disagree with Doug is that it is possible to maybe have 1-2 more turnovers per game while still having much better shot selection as a team. It's almost like he expects so little offensively out of his roster that he sells them short.

[Swashcuff]

Jrue's numbers took a hit the last year mostly because Collins started playing more through the high post. Jrue's regression last season was more fallacy than truth.

His game isn't perfect. But he displayed as the season went on last year that he not only corrected the late game turnover issue but also could score or get to the line when he needs to. There are a few too many pull up jumpers for my liking. But he can get to the line when necessary.

Never said he regressed said his #s took a hit across the board.

Do you seriously think Jrue can get to the line when necessary? I have never seen that from him. I see him as having the ability to become that player but he has never displayed it. Jrue has failed to get to the line 88 of his 220 games in his first two years in the league. Of all the PGs who have started 100 or more games and player in 180 or more total in those last 3 years he hsa the most amount of games with 0 FTAs.

I certainly wouldn't call that getting there when necessary. GYI its almost always necessary especially given the offense in which we run.

[wannabGM]

Never said he regressed said his #s took a hit across the board.

Do you seriously think Jrue can get to the line when necessary? I have never seen that from him. I see him as having the ability to become that player but he has never displayed it. Jrue has failed to get to the line 88 of his 220 games in his first two years in the league. Of all the PGs who have started 100 or more games and player in 180 or more total in those last 3 years he hsa the most amount of games with 0 FTAs.

I certainly wouldn't call that getting there when necessary. GYI its almost always necessary especially given the offense in which we run.

Gradually as the season wore on (too ****ing gradually in fact...should have been since game 1) Jrue started getting crunch time scoring ops. He not only converted but he started getting to the line on a decent percentage of his drives. And while he didn't exactly live at the line, the trend continued in the post season when he nearly doubled his FT attempts compared to the regular season. In the Chicago series in particular, he established himself as our primary offensive threat and they fouled him often.

While he doesn't get there to the ideal amount of a star or near star player......he can get there and will when needed. He has shown it. He's still showing it at the beginning of this season too. He'd have more FT attempts if it wasn't for the fact that in NY he was hoisting unconscious pull up 3's in a blowout. He had zero FT attempts in that game.

[Swashcuff]

Gradually as the season wore on (too ****ing gradually in fact...should have been since game 1) Jrue started getting crunch time scoring ops.

Completely agree.

He not only converted but he started getting to the line on a decent percentage of his drives. And while he didn't exactly live at the line, the trend continued in the post season when he nearly doubled his FT attempts compared to the regular season. In the Chicago series in particular, he established himself as our primary offensive threat and they fouled him often.

While he doesn't get there to the ideal amount of a star or near star player......he can get there and will when needed. He has shown it. He's still showing it at the beginning of this season too. He'd have more FT attempts if it wasn't for the fact that in NY he was hoisting unconscious pull up 3's in a blowout. He had zero FT attempts in that game.

TOO small of a sample size for my liking. I wholeheartedly disagree with him being able to get there when needed. Really don't think he has shown it. Aside form a couple games here or there Jrue's ability to get to the line has been nothing short of underwhelming and its one of the biggest reasons why his efficiency is so poor.

What happens when Jrue's shots aren't falling from the field? Have we seen him show the ability and the versatility to find other ways to get his offense going especially now since he's our primary offensive option. That's what I see as when necessary not only in the clutch but throughout the entire game and especially on days when his shot from the field isn't on.

[MylesKong]

I'm out. Can no longer engage in this.

[Airevo76]

Nice to see Jrue in the top 15 in NBA.com's first race to MVP!

[Swashcuff]

Nice to see Jrue in the top 15 in NBA.com's first race to MVP!

And if he continues playing the way he's playing tonight he's going to stay there for some time to come.

[Airevo76]

Yessir! He gotta cut down on TO's and get more crafty on his drives tho IMO. I see him improving in those areas as the season progresses..

[EvanTurner]

you dudes find anything to argue about. Its really embarassing