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  1. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by BChydro86 View Post
    Jrue, defensively and based on size, ill take over lawson.

    The offensive give and take isnt enough, in my opinion, to warrant me taking lawson over holiday.

    I believe that if u cloned a sg with off the ball skills (say ray allen, reggie miller, rip hamilton, or really any good scoring 2guard) and gave this player to both lawson and holiday.... Holiday becomes the more productive player.
    I agree. The Sixers have been imbalanced hodgepodge for so long you can't just use numbers to make a case for a player. On a more traditional team in a traditional role holiday's number would look much better. That's why people are confused and say stuff like he's not a traditional pg. he is. He was just asked to score more because one he has scoring ability and two there wasn't much on the team.

    It's not a matter of he has to develop because he's done that. It's just a matter of seeing it for those that missed it the first time around. It's cool. He'll have the ball. And we'll win many more close games because of it.

    Oh and if jrue does continue to develop and start getting to the line at a high clip, he becomes an elite pg. Lawson wouldn't even be in the conversation.
    Last edited by MylesKong; 11-04-2012 at 01:45 AM.
    Pay attention. You might learn something.

  2. #137
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    What these dudes don't get is that this is not a question of who you would take over whom Jrue plays for our team OF COURSE we would have a soft spot for him. I too would take Jrue over Lawson and Curry going forward its absolutely idiotic to use that reasoning the gauge the value of a player. Ask any Nuggets fan or GSW fan and they'd take their guys as well its basic common sense (unfortunately some clearly aren't born with that). What is being discussed isn't who you would take its who has been better since they've been in the league.

    What's funny about these same guys who are saying Jrue is better and supposedly have facts to back it up CANNOT do so. Every single question you ask they run dodge and hide. Why not share your knowledge?

  3. #138
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    No you are wrong. I said jrue was better than Lawson. That's where it started.
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MylesKong
    One is a midget. The other is as soft as tissue paper.

    Better.
    DAFUQ!!!

    Allen Iverson was a midget and he was the greatest player Philly has had in decades WTF are you talking about.

    Can't you construct an argument to actually support your irrational claim other than that BS.
    Pay attention. You might learn something.

  4. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swashcuff View Post
    The only player he can accurately be compared to in the clutch last season is against Lawson well since Lawson actually played enough games to make a statistical argument.

    Jrue was indeed better than Lawson in the clutch last season but how substantial was the difference. Was it a noticeable difference where one can use it as a reason to state that Jrue was better. No it wasn't. If it is I'd like to hear your argument.



    What do you mean get completely outplayed in every single regard by Lawson? Nah doesn't cut it. Sure Jrue was solid in the post season and yeah he upped his game compared to the regular season but even so he still wasn't on par with Lawson. The same Lawson who was almost singe handidly responsible for pushing the Nuggets over the Lakers.

    You can slice it anyway you want Lawson was better than Jrue last post season.



    Wait he can raise his game when it matters more more so than they can? Hold up. Lawson was hands down the Nuggets best player last post season and put down some of the most impressive #s of any PG in the post season and Jrue is better. Doesn't that statement sound biased to you?

    You want to hear about playing at a high level?

    In Stephen Curry's career he has had 47 games with a game score of 20 ore more. That's 47 out of 182 which basically leaves you with 25.8% of his games being what we would consider high quality games at least according to the box score.

    In Ty Lawson's career 27 such games. 27 out of 208 which is good for 12.9% of his games.

    Jrue has had 18 such games in his career. 18 of his 221 which is good for just 8.1%.

    But yeah those other players aren't capable of playing at the same level as Jrue.



    I already said on numerous occasions that Jrue has the potential to be the best defensive PG in the entire NBA and not only that but at the age of 21 he was already in the top 5.



    That is in your opinion as a 76ers fans. When Curry was healthy he was 5th in the league among PG in crunch time scoring being Billups, Rose, Nash and Paul. Jrue, well lets say he didn't crack the top 20. Who is to say that once Curry is on the floor that he isn't going to do the very same?



    Right now as it relates to Jrue I say basically everyone outside of guys like SixerLover, Sixer04fan, Bholly and a handful of others who know how to accurately assess Jrue. There really hasn't been much of a change.

    As it stands from what I can tell a lot of posters are content with mediocrity and aren't willing to be open, fair and critical of a player like Jrue.

    I love Jrue more than the other dude and THAT is why I can be fair and critical of his game. All I see from other posters is plain homerism.
    The difference between Jrue and Lawson statistically was actually pretty damn significant in some categories. And with Lou now gone, while the crunch time FG% for Jrue will likely go down to earth a bit, his scoring will likely increase to a more noticeable extent. And watching the actual games, Jrue has more ability 1 on 1 than Lawson in crunch time, and is a more dangerous shooter. It's kind of brutally obvious to me. If you can't see that at this point, I don't know what to tell you other than keep watching and you will surely change your opinion. Lawson has tenacity and is a more comfortable fit in an NBA half court offense as a true "point." But in a 7 game series, or in crunch time, textbook offense tends to go out the window more often than not. It becomes more about ability and finding a 1 on 1 matchup to exploit. Jrue has more of that ability than Lawson and in my eyes has already displayed it.

    The Lakers didn't exactly play with much tenacity, teamwork, or defense in the playoffs last year, and struggled with their PG position. Lawson going off in that series isn't as impressive to me as what Jrue did against the defenses of the Bulls and Celtics despite not having as many playmaking opportunities as Lawson for most of last season.

    As far as Curry goes. He's slender and not nearly as physical as Jrue. He's a bit trapped between the 1 and the 2. As nasty as he can be from the perimeter, I'll take Jrue's overall ability over a 20 ppg scorer on a bad team any time of the day looking forward down the road. Despite sharing the roc with that explosive midget chucker who is now with the Bucks, Curry in that system definitely had more opportunity to shine than Jrue. He's more of a volume shooter and possibly a more natural passer than Jrue. But he has other holes in his game that Jrue does not. And Jrue can put it on the floor and get to the paint when it matters whereas Curry might not. Jrue is also just about as likely as Curry to hit the big 3 in crunch time as well.

    At least, I don;t think that's me having blind fandom love. I think that's me seeing the game. But time will tell. No one has a crystal ball.
    Last edited by wannabGM; 11-04-2012 at 04:32 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by RickyPrior View Post
    When you go out of the way just to hate...no one takes you seriously.

  5. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by wannabGM View Post
    The difference between Jrue and Lawson statistically was actually pretty damn significant in some categories.
    Could you please share this significant statistical difference with all of us.

    And with Lou now gone, while the crunch time FG% for Jrue will likely go down to earth a bit, his scoring will likely increase to a more noticeable extent.
    That's nothing but a prediction is it not? It can go either way since teams are likely to hone in on Jrue even more.

    And watching the actual games, Jrue has more ability 1 on 1 than Lawson in crunch time, and is a more dangerous shooter.
    Tell me how many Nuggets games have you watched in the last two years to drasw this conclusion? What about Steph Curry I see no mention of him now? Why not?

    It's kind of brutally obvious to me. If you can't see that at this point, I don't know what to tell you other than keep watching and you will surely change your opinion. Lawson has tenacity and is a more comfortable fit in an NBA half court offense as a true "point." But in a 7 game series, or in crunch time, textbook offense tends to go out the window more often than not. It becomes more about ability and finding a 1 on 1 matchup to exploit.
    As I said before I await your facts to back this up. Lawson has already proven more valuable than Jrue in a 7 game series so I don't see your point.

    Jrue has more of that ability than Lawson and in my eyes has already displayed it.
    More ability? Sure I can dig that. Displaying it? I've watched Jrue his entire career he is yet to display it on a consistent enough basis for me to draw a conclusion. That's like saying Evan has displayed the ability to be better than Afflalo. Yeah in a handful of games but he has never been able to maintain it to this point.

    The Lakers didn't exactly play with much tenacity, teamwork, or defense in the playoffs last year, and struggled with their PG position. Lawson going off in that series isn't as impressive to me as what Jrue did against the defenses of the Bulls and Celtics despite not having as many playmaking opportunities as Lawson for most of last season.
    Remember when Bynum had 10 blocks in the first game of that series? When playing against a PG like Lawson interior D is just as important as perimeter (as we have seen time and time and time again with Dwight Howard's Magic) and despite that he still found a way to play at the highest level of his career.

    As far as Curry goes. He's slender and not nearly as physical as Jrue. He's a bit trapped between the 1 and the 2.
    It's clear that you've only watched Steph Curry's rookie year. Curry's assists totals went UP when Monta Ellis was out and he was the primary controller of the rock and not only that the team's offensive efficiency was better with Curry on the floor without Ellis than with Ellis.

    Add that to the FACT that Curry has a better carry passer rating, higher AST% and a lower TOV% on a higher USG% than Jrue. You're trying to tell me he's stuck being the 1 and the 2 I'd tell you that I have watched and read enough about Curry to tell you that he's a 1, plays like a 1 and has run a more efficienct offense as a 1 than Jrue ever has.

    You'll tell me that he looks to score more so he's no sure of his position.

    As nasty as he can be from the perimeter, I'll take Jrue's overall ability over a 20 ppg scorer on a bad team any time of the day looking forward down the road.
    1. I'll take. Of course you would I don't care to know who you'll take. You're a 76ers fan so OBVIOUSLY that's a given.
    2. An efficient 20 ppg scorer than the same Jrue we're talking about now is trying tooth and nail to develop into.
    3. Bad team? What does that change? That hurts Curry more than it helps. His efficiency is still way above average despite not having good teammates he is usually on his own out there defensively since GSW wasn't know for their help D and really had no one to pass the ball to outside of Wright and Ellis.

    At least, I don;t think that's me having blind fandom love. I think that's me seeing the game. But time will tell. No one has a crystal ball.
    Agreed. In time I do believe (well more like hope) that Jrue will develop into the best of the 3 players since he has basically everything going for him. Health, youth, size, two way ability, solid coaching on an up and coming team etc. Thing is that's not the debate and you guys are getting lost. You guys are trying to prove to me that Jrue is better than Curry and Lawson based on their play in the past. I'm telling you I don't see it.

    I find it strange that in the case of Lawson you take Jrue over him because he's more clutch but completely ignore the clutch factor as it relates to Curry.

  6. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by wannabGM View Post
    As far as Curry goes. He's slender and not nearly as physical as Jrue. He's a bit trapped between the 1 and the 2. As nasty as he can be from the perimeter, I'll take Jrue's overall ability over a 20 ppg scorer on a bad team any time of the day looking forward down the road. Despite sharing the roc with that explosive midget chucker who is now with the Bucks, Curry in that system definitely had more opportunity to shine than Jrue. He's more of a volume shooter and possibly a more natural passer than Jrue. But he has other holes in his game that Jrue does not. And Jrue can put it on the floor and get to the paint when it matters whereas Curry might not. Jrue is also just about as likely as Curry to hit the big 3 in crunch time as well.
    Okay you edited while I was posting so I'll just talk about the edits.

    It matters not what system Curry plays in in all honesty his offensive talents are far greater than that of Jrue's. Healthy and a member of our 76ers he could still comfortably average 20 and 6 on a TS% of greater than 58%.

    Yeah he has one hole in his game that Jrue doesn't which is D. Its a huge hole which we can't ignore but quite frankly that's about it. As for putting it on the floor and getting in the paint Jrue is also better but I don't understand an argument of Jrue being more likely to hit the big 3 in crunch time when Curry has a better track record of doing so and being a better 3 point shooter all together.

  7. #142
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    So considering your last paragraph, you still can't understand why some people think jrue is better?
    Pay attention. You might learn something.

  8. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by MylesKong View Post
    So considering your last paragraph, you still can't understand why some people think jrue is better?
    I already addressed that. Who is the better player Iggy or Carmelo Anthony?

    Just because a player is a better two way player than another player it doesn't mean that said player is better overall. I said before I personally would take Jrue over Lawson and Curry going forward and listed the reasons as to why (I didn't list that I am a partial homer so that would also be one of my reasons) but based on what we have seen from these respective players in the past I can't see how anyone can honestly say Jrue has been better than Lawson and Curry.

  9. #144
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    If iggy was better than melo at getting to the rim he'd still be here.
    Pay attention. You might learn something.

  10. #145
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    Jrue Holiday signed 4 year 41 million dollar contract ext.

    ^ and hed probably be my favorite sixer of all time


    gotta pay the troll toll

  11. #146
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    Jrue Holiday signed 4 year 41 million dollar contract ext.

    The only reason were still talking about iggy at all is that we havent seen our end of the trade on the floor yet.

    Instead of talking about how iggy would make a difference against melo, shouldnt we be talking about how bynum WILL influence these games when he takes the floor?


    gotta pay the troll toll

  12. #147
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    I was just giving him some credit.
    Pay attention. You might learn something.

  13. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by MylesKong View Post
    If iggy was better than melo at getting to the rim he'd still be here.
    And he isn't so what's your point?

  14. #149
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    Jrue is better. Duhhhhhh!!!
    Pay attention. You might learn something.

  15. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by MylesKong View Post
    Jrue is better. Duhhhhhh!!!
    Tell me something where do you rank Jrue among PGs and what's the highest rank you think he can get to?

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