Jrue Holiday signed 4 year 41 million dollar contract ext.

[wannabGM]

Completely agree.



TOO small of a sample size for my liking. I wholeheartedly disagree with him being able to get there when needed. Really don't think he has shown it. Aside form a couple games here or there Jrue's ability to get to the line has been nothing short of underwhelming and its one of the biggest reasons why his efficiency is so poor.

What happens when Jrue's shots aren't falling from the field? Have we seen him show the ability and the versatility to find other ways to get his offense going especially now since he's our primary offensive option. That's what I see as when necessary not only in the clutch but throughout the entire game and especially on days when his shot from the field isn't on.

1. Blame Collins for the sample size. It was enough for me to see what he can do.
2. When Jrue's shots aren't falling from the field, I guess he's useless. Oh that's right, he's the team's point guard and is averaging 10.4 assists to go along with impressive defense. And since he's bigger, longer, stronger than most of the pionts defending him, he could usually just post up when things aren't working.
3. Jrue doesn't have to be the primary option on a contender. He wasn't paid that kind of money. He was paid 2nd best player money for a contender. Our point guard doesn't have to get to the line 8 times per game. I can live with a lower number. Was it too low in the past? Yes. Did he show me last season that he did figure out how to start getting to the cup and finishing more effectively. Yes. The sample size was too low for you. Just enough for me.

[Swashcuff]

1. Blame Collins for the sample size. It was enough for me to see what he can do.

That's completely and utterly ridiculous to blame Collins for Jrue being the 2nd worst starting PG in the NBA at getting to the line last season and worst starting PG in the last 3 years in that regard. Jrue isn't good at getting to the line period. He'll work on it he'll get better and becoming increasingly efficient saying blame Collins for that proves that you really don't care about Jrue's inability to get to the line and convert well enough.

2. When Jrue's shots aren't falling from the field, I guess he's useless. Oh that's right, he's the team's point guard and is averaging 10.4 assists to go along with impressive defense. And since he's bigger, longer, stronger than most of the pionts defending him, he could usually just post up when things aren't working.

Again how can you call yourself a fan and you're saying stuff like this? Don't you want to see Jrue grow in all aspects of the game? Saying stuff like "He could usually post up" makes me wonder how much you really care to see Jrue get better. That's such a bland statement with no substance. Jrue is yet to develop a credible post game what happens when he attempts to post them up and isn't able to convert or turns the ball over.

If you are truly a fan of the game you'd realize that this issue is real in Jrue's game and if he intends to continue to improve on his solid play to start the season and really hurt opposing teams getting to the line is vital. You really don't get the point don't you? For Jrue's game to continue improving, for his scoring efficiency to continue improving for his TEAM's offensive efficiency to continue improving him getting to the line, converting and otherwise creating offense that wasn't there before is essential.

The Thunder last season got to the line more than anyone and had the lowest APG in the NBA do you know where they ranked in offense? 2nd. That was by season's end though. As of game #59 of the regular season they were still in first place. Want to know a major reason as to why they were so good offensively despite having such few assists and so many turnovers? They got to the line, converted on a consistent basis and otherwise get points on possessions that other teams would have missed out on. That's what takes place with us. We take a shot, we miss a shot and the possession ends.

3. Jrue doesn't have to be the primary option on a contender.

Okay but right now without Andrew Bynum in the fold is are we anything near being a contender? He is currently our #1 option not so?

Last night James Harden made just 4-19 attempts from the field. You know why his team wasn't blown out? He got to the line, converted and ended up with 18 points on just 4 made FGs. What happens when Jrue shoots like that?

He wasn't paid that kind of money. He was paid 2nd best player money for a contender.

I never said anything to the contrary apparently that point flew over your head.

Our point guard doesn't have to get to the line 8 times per game.

Again I never said that. What I would love however is that if our PG is currently our #1 option that he can get to the line 4-5 times during the course of a game. He is on that type of pace now and needs to continue because going almost half the games of his career without getting to the line once isn't going to cut it.

I can live with a lower number. Was it too low in the past? Yes.

So wait after all this time you finally admit it was too low in the past?

Did he show me last season that he did figure out how to start getting to the cup and finishing more effectively. Yes. The sample size was too low for you. Just enough for me.

Getting to the cup and finishing effectively was never a concern of mine. My concern is when he gets there to be able to get the contact and still finish. What he showed in the post season was indeed promising that doesn't make up however for him not doing it at a higher rate before. What will however will be when he continues on with this solid start this season.

[wannabGM]

Swashcuff. You are cherry picking and putting words in my mouth a little bit here and there. I saw Jrue start getting to the line in big moments when he went to the cup even before the post season. I know the stats. But I also know that the entire team did not get the line last season. Collins was a big part of that equation. In fact, what the Sixers did last season at the line was borderline historic for a winning team.

5 games in with Jrue having both the ball and the free reign, is the sample size still too low for you? Is my preference to Jrue over a couple midgets and Curry based on past performance prior to this season still mostly homerism? Is he not getting to the line?

Last season I watched Jrue become a legit 2nd or 3rd best player for a contender. It wasn't obvious because of the stats, his role, and Collins' ****ed up offense. I watch the game, not just the box score.

[Swashcuff]

Swashcuff. You are arguing just to argue. You do realize that, right? You are cherry picking and putting words in my mouth.

5 games in with Jrue having both the ball and the free reign, is the sample size still too low for you? Is my preference to Jrue over a couple midgets and Curry based on past performance prior to this season still mostly homerism? Is he not getting to the line?

Last season I watched Jrue become a legit 2nd or 3rd best player for a contender. It wasn't obvious because of the stats, his role, and Collins' ****ed up offense. I watch the game, not just the box score.

Really am fed up of your analysis of a player being calling him a midget. A midget was one of the greatest players ever to wear our uniform, remember that.

You still can't understand that this argument is not and was not about current or future Jrue. You jumped into an argument about Jrue's play PRIOR to this year. I never once said anything about Jrue not being able to become a good player or anything of that nature I always thought he had the potential to be the 2nd best player on a championship team and when Jrue came along I feel as if that was a couple seasons a couple moves and Evan Turner's development away.

I watch the game, I re-watch all the highlights I can, I read the reports, I try to gain as full of an understanding of the stats and relate them to our performance and to that of the more successful teams/players in the league I don't just watch box scores.

If I was arguing just to argue I would not be bringing up facts to back my position what I would be doing is what Myleskong does and what you're starting to do call a player a midget and say the taller player is better without applying any context.

Everything you asked I already answered. I said Jrue is doing a better job at getting to the line, I said this was a discussion of who has played their best in prior seasons I proved it and you are yet to state otherwise and yes a 5 game sample size is too small for any logical basketball discussion. That doesn't mean however that Jrue isn't going to continue to improve. If you think a 5 game sample size is enough then I guess you'd also think that his TOs are going to continue right? He is going to continue to improve on both ends of the floor and IMO 18 and 8 with top calibre D is logical for him this season I don't base that on 5 games though if I were then I'd also think he'd lead the league in TOs.

[Fred]

As robin would say as he pulled his tights out of his ***-crack "holy long posts Batman!"

I am too old to spend so much time reading these posts that are basically books...

...they may be very insightful and fact-based and yet, when I see their length, I bypass them as they would sound like the teacher from the peanuts cartoons
sorry, just my opinion...

[wannabGM]

Swashscuff....I realized the "argue just to argue" comment was a bit harsh....I edited it out, but too late you already read it. I apologize.

Some interesting stats from last season possibly relevant to this discussion:
1) The Sixers as a team ranked dead last in the NBA during the 2011-12 season in free throw attempts.
2) In 2011-12 season, the Sixers number of FTA's per game of 18.15 is the 2nd lowest in the history of the NBA for a winning team, and 1 of 3 teams in NBA history to have a winning season with 20 or less attempts per game.
3) Lou Williams had almost twice as many crunch time FG attempts as Jrue during the regular season.
4) Spencer Hawes was 2nd in the NBA among centers in assists/game to only Boris Diaw (if you can call him a true center) despite only playing a shade under 25 minutes per game. Holy high post, Batman.
5) Last year, Iguodala was 2nd to only Lebron James in assists per game of any player on the wing.
6) Both years under Collins, Jrue's ppg and assists rose compared to the regular season and he lead the team in scoring in the postseason.
7) In 2011-12, of any player with a crunch time FG% > 50%, Jrue and Kyrie Irving were the only two players to be assisted on 30% or less of their buckets.
8) Jrue was 7th in FG% in the entire NBA (Bynum was 1st) in crunch time with 65%. However of the top 15 in FG%, only Jrue and Goran Dragic were not assisted the majority of the time. Jrue was 30% and Dragic was 37%. Everyone else near the top of the league in crunch time FG% was > 50% assisted.

[Swashcuff]

Solid post WannaB. Thanks for sharing.