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  1. #196
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    I read the entire conference. Honestly, I don't have a problem with any of this.

    I know Kyle, mell, and Gato (when he reads it) will probably be pissed, but I've already gone on record of being tired of middling free agent seasons. I made a post last thread about the differences between the 2002 Barry Bonds Giants and the 2012 2-WS-in-3-years Giants, and if more losing seasons is what it will take to get to that level, then so be it.

  2. #197
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    Funny thing about those Giants is that Sabean was criticized in the late 2000s when the team went bad and he never tore it down to rebuild. He just kept adding veteran free agents every offseason.

  3. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by KyleJRM View Post
    The Angels are paying $1 million, the value of Santana's buyout. The Royals are picking up $12 million.

    So I repeat: LOL at Royals.

    Desperation is evident with this deal,but KC does have a come of age core group of regulars, and they likely aren't done on patchin the pitchin B4 any bit chin.

  4. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by KyleJRM View Post
    Funny thing about those Giants is that Sabean was criticized in the late 2000s when the team went bad and he never tore it down to rebuild. He just kept adding veteran free agents every offseason.
    While true, the actual core all came from within and they were bad for a while, during those guys development.

  5. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by davell View Post
    While true, the actual core all came from within and they were bad for a while, during those guys development.
    Yep. Which again proves: You can build a core from within without being intentionally bad. Though unintentionally bad isn't quite the same as not bad at all.

    Also interesting to note that the Giants won their first of this pair of WS just two years after finishing 72-90.

  6. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by KyleJRM View Post
    Yep. Which again proves: You can build a core from within without being intentionally bad. Though unintentionally bad isn't quite the same as not bad at all.

    Also interesting to note that the Giants won their first of this pair of WS just two years after finishing 72-90.
    I don't care if being bad is intentional or not. If the team is bad, then I want it to SUCK. So we have the greatest budget available as well as the largest pool of talent to choose from.

    And if it's possible to win just two years after finishing 72-90, then I don't think it should be killing people to have to put up with middling stopgap veteran free agent acquisitions while waiting for impact prospects to come up.

  7. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by TyrionLannister View Post
    I don't care if being bad is intentional or not. If the team is bad, then I want it to SUCK. So we have the greatest budget available as well as the largest pool of talent to choose from.
    That's a nice consolation prize, but it comes at the cost of having a much worse MLB roster, which does have a little something to do with how well the team will do in the future.

    If Castro and Rizzo didn't exist, we just might have caught Houston. That wouldn't have made it worth it.

    And if it's possible to win just two years after finishing 72-90, then I don't think it should be killing people to have to put up with middling stopgap veteran free agent acquisitions while waiting for impact prospects to come up.
    As long as we actually get middling stopgrap veteran stopgaps and not trashheap terrible veteran stopgaps, I can live with it.

  8. #203
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    And if it's possible to win just two years after finishing 72-90, then I don't think it should be killing people to have to put up with middling stopgap veteran free agent acquisitions while waiting for impact prospects to come up.
    2010 Giants featured the almost 50 million dollar Aaron Rowand, year 1 of a long term deal for Huff, as well as the Zito contract which was still around in 2012 obviously. It's not just stopgaps - veterans are an important part of any roster and you need more than stopgaps to thrive. Also, as stated above there's a difference between Ian Stewart as a stopgap and someone actually qualified to start for a decent team.

  9. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by KyleJRM View Post
    That's a nice consolation prize, but it comes at the cost of having a much worse MLB roster, which does have a little something to do with how well the team will do in the future.

    If Castro and Rizzo didn't exist, we just might have caught Houston. That wouldn't have made it worth it.
    I'm more than fine with watching our young guys learn and develop. As Cubs fans we're hardened enough that panicking over a win or loss is hard to come by.

    As long as we actually get middling stopgrap veteran stopgaps and not trashheap terrible veteran stopgaps, I can live with it.
    This I can agree with.

  10. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by TyrionLannister View Post
    I'm more than fine with watching our young guys learn and develop. As Cubs fans we're hardened enough that panicking over a win or loss is hard to come by.



    This I can agree with.

    Unfortunately, Hoyer (I think it was him, might have been Epstein) said tonight that the plan is to go from terrible to excellent in one offseason, and it won't be this one. That implies that they expect to be terrible going into this future offseason.

  11. #206
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    I just want a team with guys that actually belong on an MLB roster. I don't think that's asking a lot. I dont need 06 repeated, but I want guys that belong on a roster. I've even said watching a young team grow can be fun, but they HAVE to be guys that matter. No more Stewarts, Cardenas', Clevengers, etc of the world. At this point I'd settle for a team that isn't an embarrassment

  12. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by SenorGato View Post
    2010 Giants featured the almost 50 million dollar Aaron Rowand, year 1 of a long term deal for Huff, as well as the Zito contract which was still around in 2012 obviously. It's not just stopgaps - veterans are an important part of any roster and you need more than stopgaps to thrive. Also, as stated above there's a difference between Ian Stewart as a stopgap and someone actually qualified to start for a decent team.
    Of course. I don't think anyone disagrees with this. That's why I'm more than willing to wait and see who it actually is we sign before I start flipping out.

    EDIT: As well as what other major players sign for.
    Last edited by TyrionLannister; 11-01-2012 at 11:18 PM.

  13. #208
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    http://www.bleachernation.com/2012/1...and-jed-hoyer/

    Jed: Once you get into offseason, it feels like a sprint until middle-end of January, when players stop signing. Right now we’re talking to a lot of agents and a lot of teams about trades. That’s the most exciting part of the job, and it’ll go on for the next couple months. It’s not tough to sell the Cubs in the Winter, because players want to come play in front of a packed house of loyal fans.
    Theo: Don’t want to put a time line on things, and, again, the focus is scouting and player development to get a team competing consistently. Always going to be temptation to sacrifice a little of the future – best prospects or future dollars that you want to allocate somewhere else. There’s a time when you’re one player away, but we’re not there yet. We’re building something that will provide great results year-in, year-out. We want it to be with a nucleus of players who all enter their prime at the same time, and we’ll supplement with free agents. We’ll sign free agents along the way, of course.
    Jed: We really worked hard at it in Spring. The last few years have been weak fundamentally. It was good earlier in the year, and the losses were more about talent than fundamentals, but later in the year, the weak fundamentals came back. Some of that is maturity, some of it is getting better players.
    Jed: No team is going to be made up of eight number three hitters. You want to have at least a couple guys in the middle of the order who make the pitcher think like Fielder and Cabrera or Ramirez and Ortiz. It changes the way the pitcher operates through the rest of the lineup. The most important thing is grinding at bats, and the Cubs struggled with it last year. We need even the guys at the bottom of the order to be tough outs. You win games by getting to the soft underbelly of the other team’s bullpen. But the Cubs haven’t done that, so the starters stay in the game longer, and then you just see starters and elite setup men and closers.
    Theo: There are two ways to improve your team in a hurry: (1) Sign a bunch of talent, or (2) Have a wave of young talent coming at the same time. The latter group, young players, tend to make teams get better in a hurry because they’re all developing and improving together. We supplement that with impact signings, and suddenly the team is better in an hurry.
    Jed: Third base is actually a position we feel pretty good about in the system. Josh Vitters is still talented, Junior Lake has a lot of talent, Christian Villanueva is a fantastic defender and a breakout candidate, and Javier Baez, who can stick at short for a while, but who can move to third if necessary. Also Jeimer Candelario, who has the stick, and can probably be a good defensive third baseman too. We’re still looking at Ian Stewart, and evaluating what led to his poor performance the last couple years. We’ll find out how his wrist surgery addressed those issues. We’re spending a ton of time talking about the best way to fill third base, because it’s not an easy fill on the market right now. Long-term, though, we feel good.
    Also Tony Zych, who is throwing the ball extremely well. Mid-90s fastball, good slider and splitter. Hope he’ll be a part of the bullpen for years to come.
    Question: Pitching depth in the system? Any prospects that could help the big team in the next couple years?

    Jed: The question that occupies most of our time. We inherited subpar pitching depth. We have to improve it. Playoff teams are often built with homegrown pitchers, and we need to draft and develop those kind of arms. We can supplement through free agency, but the best teams draft and develop. We took Almora first last year, and then eight straight pitchers. We’ll always look to acquire pitching until we get to that critical mass where we feel good – which might never happen.

    Theo: We’re going to do our best to develop Arodys Vizcaino as a starter. Mid-90s fastball, really good breaking ball, and a solid changeup. Because he’s got that changeup, we’d like to try and make him a starter. Our starting pitching prospects, generally, are three, four years away, so we can’t pass up an opportunity on Vizcaino.
    Len: How about the young arms in the bullpen? Pleased?

    Theo: Overall I wasn’t happy with the bullpen. There were some bright spots – James Russell continued his progress facing a wider variety of better hitters. Marmol turned his season around, threw his fastball more, and the velocity came back. The last three or four months, he was a good relief pitcher. Alberto Cabrera showed big league stuff, and we think there might be a starting pitcher in there thanks to a changeup and his ability to repeat his delivery.
    Theo: We will make plenty of moves. The payroll, we’ll have to look at where it is at the end of the year. In previous years, it was sort of artificially high thanks to deferrals like Carlos Pena ($5 million in 2012, even though he was playing for the Rays). We don’t want to continue that practice. There won’t be a shortage of investments in the team.
    Question: Matt Garza has been in trade rumors ever since coming to the team, do you see him in the long-term plans?

    Jed: The focus right now is getting him healthy, so it’s hard to answer until we get him healthy. The medical staff is optimistic, so we’re looking to get him to Spring Training, and have him be a part of the 2013 team. Focusing on more than that is misguided.
    Theo: The general rule is that good hitters, with a big enough sample size, will perform well in the clutch because they’re good. There is a psychological element to it. Some players have the ability to calm themselves better, and will be better able to perform to their normal level in those pressure situations. Younger players, sometimes play worse because they can’t yet calm themselves. Thing is, you’re likely to face a pitcher who has been hand-picked to take on your weaknesses in those situations, so hitters who don’t have obvious holes tend to do better.
    Last edited by SenorGato; 11-01-2012 at 11:40 PM.

  14. #209
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    It'll be interesting. 3B is a giant hole thats unlikely to be filled thru FA. If Soriano's dealt, we'll have 2 OF spots that won't be easy to fill either. I'm much more confident in the 2013 rotation than I am in the lineup. With what we're looking for, pitching is going to be easier to find.

  15. #210
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    Polanco, Hunter, 2 of Haren/Johnson/Jackson/Marcum/Sanchez

    /offseason

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