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  1. #91
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    Not rWAR! That respected statistic! ERA+? Dammit were screwed then. Secretly he DOES suck.

    I hope you realize that trying to sell short a top 30 FIP, top 15 xFIP, top 30 fWAR, top 5 K rate, top 2 fastball velocity, top 30 basic ERA can only work on extraordinarily simple minds who maybe havent bothered to notice that there are 30 teams who have to field 5 starting pitchers. Barely above average doesnt force their way into the top 30 of so many relevant and predictive numbers.

    Ignoring that Lance Lynn has absolutely nothing to do with anything - he could probably bring back something nice as well, Im sure - Shark was better. I love it - so much more fitting for your agenda than *he was better than Lance Lynn by a solid amount but Lynn has control years and is younger therefore value.*

    Lol barely league average...Sorry, I cant do this. Im having way too many bad experiences arguing with you as you throw out some absolutely unbelievable/ridiculous spin jobs.
    Last edited by SenorGato; 11-01-2012 at 06:45 PM.

  2. #92
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    Why would someone continue to debate with someone so wildly condescending for absolutely no reason?

    night

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    Why would someone continue to debate with someone so wildly condescending for absolutely no reason?

    night
    Yeah, youve been all manners to me. Sorry, but the amount of spin you want to put on the numbers - and all the numbers I picked for this were picked because of their long standing repuation as good predictive numbers (which as a numbers guy I expected you to know - perhaps I guessed wrong) - shows a complete lack of respect towards the person you are debating with, which happens to be me. Seriously - barely league average? A comment like that is supposed to be taken seriously? Ya know...good...wasnt mean to be completely condescending, putting aside how blatantly false that statement was?

    We are both the villains here so spare the victim card please.
    Last edited by SenorGato; 11-01-2012 at 06:56 PM.

  4. #94
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    Hey Mr. Cat, why dont you ask a few Ranger fans what they think about giving up 2 top 50 specs for a #3-4 starter?

    Werent Olt and Perez going to headline a Greinke deal or something? Dont tell me you think Samardziahsbad is equal to Greinke.
    You have no idea how excited I am right now.


  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by jej View Post
    Hey Mr. Cat, why dont you ask a few Ranger fans what they think about giving up 2 top 50 specs for a #3-4 starter?

    Werent Olt and Perez going to headline a Greinke deal or something? Dont tell me you think Samardziahsbad is equal to Greinke.
    Yup. The Rangers turned down a Greinke offer because the Brewers insisted on getting one of Olt/Perez/Profar for Greinke.

    Rangers said no.


    Now for Shark? yeah right


    Problem is, we don't have many Rangers fans on this forum to really answer this question

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by jej View Post
    Hey Mr. Cat, why dont you ask a few Ranger fans what they think about giving up 2 top 50 specs for a #3-4 starter?

    Werent Olt and Perez going to headline a Greinke deal or something? Dont tell me you think Samardziahsbad is equal to Greinke.
    Didnt I pose the question to the whole board? Do I have to seek them out? Do you *really* think I dont know the answer to expect on the prospect obsessed internet?

    And lol if were going to play the rumor game of things that never happened - before Garza went down the rumor was that Texas had put together a huge package of prospects for him. Once he went down, Texas set their sights on Dempster and offered their second best, still a top 100 prospect and top 10 in their system, 3B prospect for him. Is Garza on par with Greinkpolar in the eyes of the internet? Does that mean Texas was going to get hoodwinked or that good power pitching isnt this cheap, easy to find commodity you people seem convinced it is?

    Problem is, we don't have many Rangers fans on this forum to really answer this question
    Yeah, thats the problem. Im sure most would love to answer yes to this.

    Ill predict it for you:

    Those guys, on the internet, would not go for anything less than David Price or some other young basically true ace (or a J. Upton type talent). In real life, it would take way more than those two to land David Price. Why? Because having the best prospects isnt the goal of teams who want to win and are directly in line to do so.
    Last edited by SenorGato; 11-01-2012 at 07:16 PM.

  7. #97
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    I can see the Giants trading for a reliever, but I really don't know who. Our team is pretty much complete and our Left Field GAP will most likely be filled in Free Agency.

  8. #98
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    Rangers fan here....and no way in HELL do I include Olt or Perez in a deal for Samardzija....he is no better then what we already have plus he only has one year as a starter under his belt so why would the Rangers give up any top 50 spec for him?...I could see something like Justin Grimm and Louis Sardinas/Engel Beltre for him but that is about it.

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by SenorGato View Post
    Tigers need to give up on Porcello and trade him to the Cubs. The jump in infield defense will help him out significantly.
    If we re-sign Sanchez, I bet Porcello is moved. A little confused why you want him so much though. Doesn't have the greatest stuff, doesn't have an out pitch and tires too easily. I get that he's young and all but I don't see more than a mediocre pitcher.

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by slugger82685 View Post
    Rangers fan here....and no way in HELL do I include Olt or Perez in a deal for Samardzija....he is no better then what we already have plus he only has one year as a starter under his belt so why would the Rangers give up any top 50 spec for him?...I could see something like Justin Grimm and Louis Sardinas/Engel Beltre for him but that is about it.
    Huh? I'd figure you guys would be thrilled if Perez ended up comparable to Shark.

    Sharks value is too hard for me to gauge. He needs another season starting really. Stuff wise he looks good though.

  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by slugger82685 View Post
    Rangers fan here....and no way in HELL do I include Olt or Perez in a deal for Samardzija....he is no better then what we already have plus he only has one year as a starter under his belt so why would the Rangers give up any top 50 spec for him?...I could see something like Justin Grimm and Louis Sardinas/Engel Beltre for him but that is about it.
    What he said.
    @asmarks18
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  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by StriveGreatness View Post
    If we re-sign Sanchez, I bet Porcello is moved. A little confused why you want him so much though. Doesn't have the greatest stuff, doesn't have an out pitch and tires too easily. I get that he's young and all but I don't see more than a mediocre pitcher.
    Good velocity, big frame, no injuries, average to above average player at an extremely young age, good movement on the fastball, gets groundballs, experienced in big games as a young player...Help him develop an offspeed pitch or two (and I thought his changeup made good strides this year) and he could really take off.

    Rangers fan here....and no way in HELL do I include Olt or Perez in a deal for Samardzija....he is no better then what we already have plus he only has one year as a starter under his belt so why would the Rangers give up any top 50 spec for him?...I could see something like Justin Grimm and Louis Sardinas/Engel Beltre for him but that is about it.
    Wow. This is why imagining trades shouldn't happen. Engel Beltre? Really?

    Besides price, what happened that prospects got put on this pedestal and major league talent is *always* in question and overpaid? It's just weird to see. 10 years ago it just was not like this, and things haven't changed all that much beyond more information about prospects being out there so that you can track them start to finish. Olt and Perez being top 50 prospects has some relevance to their future - they're clearly better than the Grimms/Beltre/Sardinases of the world. Beyond that, being ranked on a list has less relevance than most would be happy to admit (though yes, sure it's heavily in their favor compared to other minor leaguers).

    Should be required reading for anyone who wants to talk prospects and trades:

    http://www.royalsreview.com/2011/2/1...-mlb-prospects

    Like the draft, after the first handful of players the values start plummeting just moving through the top 100 prospects in the minors.

    Sharks value is too hard for me to gauge. He needs another season starting really. Stuff wise he looks good though.
    Yes. That said, it's already higher than anyone here gives it credit for just by virtue of being a physically gifted, healthy pitcher who's thrown very quality innings with a high quality fastball. I'm fine with him being underrated by the masses (it's actually a little deserved considering he's a late bloomer relative to what's considered normal) for the time being because of how quickly things change, but man it's irritating how actively unrealistic people are about prospects.
    Last edited by SenorGato; 11-01-2012 at 11:02 PM.

  13. #103
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    Giants trade Clayton Blackburn to Arizona for Gerardo Parra. Fair deal?
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  14. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rain City View Post
    Could ms get jay Bruce or cargo for pitching prospects?
    Oh god, CarGo in Seattle would be hilarious

  15. #105
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    Also, Phillies trade every prospect worth something for Headley

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