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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coupon View Post
    They don't see it your way. They're making a lot of money. Ballpark revenue in Forbes was $225 million in the most recent Forbes listing. Their share of SNY and all T.V. revenue must be at least as much annually.

    If they spend and lose anyway, revenue won't go up much. Even with an awful team they draw announced crowds of no less than 20,000 per game. Between die hard suckers and corporate sales this seems to be as low as attendance goes. They obviously figure they clear more money with less risk putting out a cheap, bad team.

    People need to get serious about not going to any more games. If attendance drops low enough they'll get the message. Unfortunately people keep buying tickets and filling their pockets. I think next time they spend will be when the mall is getting ready to open.
    Ballpark revenue goes hand in hand with attendance obviously. They were barely above 2.2 million this year in announced attendance (that includes tickets that were given away on gameday which i am sure the Mets had quite a bit of)

    They make 65 million from SNY annually because they own majority of the network but aren't its sole contributors.

    Does 3-3.5 million people in yearly attendance or over 4 million like they had in 2008 make a significant difference in revenue? Of course it does.

    They will be lucky to push 1.8 or 1.9 million next year (and that's being generous) if they start off slow unlike they did this year. That puts a pinch in any owner's wallet and the Wilpons, although *******s, have enough business sense to know to get people back they are going to have to give people incentive to come back.

    Andres Torres and Jon Rauch are not that incentive.

    Will that happen? Like i said it's more hope than it is anything else but they've really run out excuses in 2014 not to add payroll.
    Last edited by metswon69; 11-05-2012 at 01:19 AM.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by DisgruntledGoat View Post
    Why do we keep thinking that 2014 will be a significant year for acquisitions vis free agency? Yes Bay and Santana's contracts will be off the books BUT most of that $40million will have most likely already been Re-allocated to Wright and Dickey's contracts and while there may be $10-12Million left over, it's still not enough UNLESS payroll goes up, which until we put a team capable of competing at the major league level and ticket sales increase...won't be happening.

    I'm just saying...DON'T expect any significant change in the near to mid-term(1-5 year) future.
    Actually it's $50M when you count the buy-outs and no, most of that money will absolutely NOT go to Wright and Dickey. They already are about $20M on the payroll combined, I'd say worst case scenario that goes up to $35M per year. That is only $15M of the $50M, which leaves $35M to spend from losing Bay and Santana. Now if they trade Dickey for multiple pieces now, that leaves more money later and we might get an impact player or two in return for cheap.

  3. #48
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    http://www.nypost.com/p/news/busines...vYNa5we5olOIWP

    Citi Field revenues have dropped more than 30 percent since the New York Mets ballpark opened in 2009, and premium ticket sales are down by nearly 50 percent, according to financial records.

    Overall attendance declined 26 percent, to 2.3 million, and during that time, revenues for concessions and parking slipped. The financial documents obtained by Newsday show that concession revenue dropped 28 percent since 2009, to $10.9 million in 2011. Newsday reported in its Sunday editions that parking was down 37 percent, to $7 million.

    Ticket sales for the 10,635 premium seats also declined from $99.3 million in 2009 to $50.6 million through 2011. The seats are about 25 percent of the 42,000-seat stadium.
    That was the beginning of last year, and there attendance dropped almost another 150,000 people this year.

    It's a slippery slope if they continue this non spending trend on the team.
    Last edited by metswon69; 11-05-2012 at 01:14 AM.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    Your point about the Wilpons may be correct but you need to get your facts straight about payroll first.

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...1E&output=html

    The Mets have 13.5 million dollars dedicated towards the whole team then with the exception of Wright and Dickey.

    Even if they re-sign Wright and Dickey, we are still talking about a 40-50 million dollar payroll because Wright's first 2 years will most likely be at reduced salary and his contract backloaded.

    As for Dickey, there is a chance he might not be re-signed and dealt this offseason. That would lower payroll from that 40-50 million dollar estimate with the rest of the Mets players being arbitration eligible players.

    That's why people are pointing at 2014 because with a budget like that their should be payroll flexibility to improve the team quite dramatically.

    Does that happen? We don't know but the Mets won't have nearly the payroll obligations going into 2014 as they did going into this year with Bay, Santana, and Francisco gone.
    To be fair, if you are accounting for us retaining most of our prospects and young players, than that payroll will likely be 70 mil(w/o Dickey) maybe 60 mil(w/o Dickey). The Mets payroll was around 90 mil last year, and they're still trying to slash money. The point is, the Mets will likely not spend in 2014, given that the Wilpons are funneling money from Mets/SNY to pay their Madoff debts. It's despicable, that the Wilpons are doing this, and this likely shows that this whole "2014 we'll spend money and be competitive" is a pipe dream.

    W/ that in mind trade Wright and Dickey, and get back some decent prospects. Like a poster said above me, the Mets typically don't spend on the draft, but I rather take my chances w/ that than be a perennial 75 win team full of scrap heap vets. Also, a wild card of this getting better is Selig retiring in 2014. Maybe the upcoming new commissioner will address this madness and force the Wilpons out, although that may be tough given the Willets Point deal. At the end of the day, neither option seem probable(the Mets spending money in 2014 or the Wilpons being forced out in 2015), so it looks like this franchise is screwed unless a miracle happens. Save us Wheeler and Harvey ray:
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  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmic_Canon View Post
    To be fair, if you are accounting for us retaining most of our prospects and young players, than that payroll will likely be 70 mil(w/o Dickey) maybe 60 mil(w/o Dickey). The Mets payroll was around 90 mil last year, and they're still trying to slash money. The point is, the Mets will likely not spend in 2014, given that the Wilpons are funneling money from Mets/SNY to pay their Madoff debts. It's despicable, that the Wilpons are doing this, and this likely shows that this whole "2014 we'll spend money and be competitive" is a pipe dream.

    W/ that in mind trade Wright and Dickey, and get back some decent prospects. Like a poster said above me, the Mets typically don't spend on the draft, but I rather take my chances w/ that than be a perennial 75 win team full of scrap heap vets. Also, a wild card of this getting better is Selig retiring in 2014. Maybe the upcoming new commissioner will address this madness and force the Wilpons out, although that may be tough given the Willets Point deal. At the end of the day, neither option seem probable(the Mets spending money in 2014 or the Wilpons being forced out in 2015), so it looks like this franchise is screwed unless a miracle happens. Save us Wheeler and Harvey ray:
    That's not the case, the Mets most significant arbitration 2 eligible players are Murphy and Ike in 2014. This is the first time for guys like Ike Davis, Murphy, Parnell and Thole.

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/1...york-mets.html

    Assuming only Murphy, Parnell, Davis, and Thole are retained, we're projecting $8.5MM for four arbitration eligible players.
    I expect them to offer Ike a contract next year if he continues to play well (the article suggests 4yrs/30 million like Billy Butler got),as for Murphy we don't know his future considering Flores is coming and the Mets wont need a 3rd baseman with Wright presumably re-signed. (so the obvious move is to 2nd or the OF)

    Payroll won't be in the 60-70 million range unless the Mets add players besides. Again assuming Wright and Dickey are re-signed (which i dont know if Dickey will be) at least Wright's contract will have flexibility built in for the first 2 years as i am sure most of his contract will be backloaded.

    Payroll will be more in the 50 million dollar range which should give the Mets significant room to have flexibility even if they kept it at 80-85 million dollars for 2014.

    What i do know is that they can't go into 2014 with the same team yet again with no ability to add impact players.

    I mean they could but it would be in team's best interest financially not to.
    Last edited by metswon69; 11-05-2012 at 03:08 AM.

  6. #51
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    On second you're likely right, I don't think it will be 50 mil(assuming no FA or Dickey), but it will be somewhere between 50 - 60 mil.
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  7. #52
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    The only player as of now that is under a contract in 2014 is Jon Niese, and he will make $5M. Assuming Ike is extended by then or accepts arbitration, he will probably make $6M, and depending on what they do with Murphy, he might make another $5M. That is roughly $16M for those 3 guys.

    Tejada will be first time eligible and will likely make $2M or so. Then the rest of the guys pretty much make the minimum or close to it, so with roughly $20-25M on the salary, they will have nearly $70-80M to spend on players.

    They can use $30M of that on Wright and Dickey while using the rest to improve the team. They would still be around that $100M range which is what they are looking for right now it seems. Maybe if we get close to contention and the pieces are in place, Sandy will have more to spend with hopefully added revenues.

    They don't have to blow all their payroll flexibility in 2014 necessarily, but that is when the real spending wi begin imo because a NY franchise will not have a $70M payroll.

  8. #53
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    Anyone expecting a spending bonanza any time soon is going to be disappointed they didn't get payroll down this far to give it all back. If they need to have a $70M payroll, they will have a $70M payroll.

  9. #54
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    Is this what the Mets forum has become? No wonder I haven't posted in here for a while...

    Tired of the *****ing and moaning from the fans. If you don't like it then don't watch it. Don't go to Citi Field and don't turn on SNY. I'm a fan regardless of the team spending 40 mil or 140 mil on the team's payroll. We have some young guys who are hungry and want to play everyday...that's better than some ****ing teams who have zero hope. Alderson has a plan and if you're too impatient to stand by and wait, then go root for the ****ing Yankees. This team will be better once the dark days are over...it's a necessary evil and it just needs some time. Things will turn around.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beltrans Mole View Post
    Is this what the Mets forum has become? No wonder I haven't posted in here for a while...

    Tired of the *****ing and moaning from the fans. If you don't like it then don't watch it. Don't go to Citi Field and don't turn on SNY. I'm a fan regardless of the team spending 40 mil or 140 mil on the team's payroll. We have some young guys who are hungry and want to play everyday...that's better than some ****ing teams who have zero hope. Alderson has a plan and if you're too impatient to stand by and wait, then go root for the ****ing Yankees. This team will be better once the dark days are over...it's a necessary evil and it just needs some time. Things will turn around.
    I believe the Wilpons will finally spend right before the super mall is set to open in 2016. They'll need to drive customers to the area. They won't spend enough to put the team over the top, but they'll spend enough for "meaningful baseball in September". Sort of like they did when they launched SNY and were about to open a new ballpark five to ten years ago.

    So only three or so years to go - unless lawsuits delay Wilpon hijacking his neighbors land. If that happens look for the "rebuilding" to continue for a long time.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    Well to be fair, perpetual mediocrity without any direction is and was accepted in the NFL too.

    All you need to look at is the Cleveland Browns or Oakland Raiders now.

    And as for prior examples how about the Lions and Saints for all those years.

    Even the Jets before Parcells came in, how many years did they struggle?

    That's not correct.

    The Browns are perpetually mediocre but not through lack of effort, or spending $$$. The Coupons are guilty of both. They (The Browns) try, they fail, but it's because they have been a poorly owned and managed team, they make poor decisions, it's nothing to do with acceptance of mediocrity.

    The Raiders went to the SB a decade ago, won 4 straight div titles and went to another AFC title game.

    Al Davis wasn't a guy lacking commitment, or $$$, or effort, he was simply a misguided old goat who let the league pass him by while he consumed himself with petty fights with the league or anyone in his own org who thought differently.

    There's no acceptance of mediocrity, they're just badly run teams.


    The Coupons are completely failing their (our) team in every single regard, and are writing off (in NYC i might add) season after season after season, and MLB is allowing them to do so.

    If the Browns started to say 'We're not spending up to the salary cap for the next 5 years, we're just gonna spend 75%' they'd force the owner out or contract the team.

    If the Coupons owned the Jets and they started pulling this *****, their feet would not touch the ground, Rog would have them out of the league before the SB was over.

    Listen to the BS coming out, 'we may be able to spend a little bit in 2014' 'we need some flexibility' they've got a mid market payroll of $95M and they can't even afford that!!!

    What a joke!!!

    They can afford a small market payroll of about $70M, in NYC.

    That's the reality, forget the smokescreen and the blather and crapola about 'flexibility', and all this rebuilding nonsense. Falling revenue, falling att. the city hates these creeps, how are they ever going to compete in that climate?


    You talk about the Browns man, we are the ******** Browns!!! and The Mets make the Raiders look like the NYY!!!


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