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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coupon View Post
    Honestly I think the Wilpons are planning to spend again when that real estate development on the poisoned land they hijacked is ready to open. Supposedly 2016 if lawsuits don't stop it. They'll probably start spending a little in advance of that.

    They spent from around 2004 to 2008 because they were starting SNY and opening a new stadium and they needed to generate interest. They didn't spend the extra for a farm system or a winner, but they spent enough for "meaningful baseball in September". My guess is they'll do it again to juice attendance and drive customers to their new super mall.

    They're probably hoping all of us will forget this whole era, and what kind of scum they are.

    It's a scandal what they're getting away with, I don't know much about the land development, but they're just being allowed to tank season after season.

    Disgusting corruption from MLB.

    Can you imagine the NFL allowing this to happen?

    "What do you mean you're flat-out refusing to do anything to improve the team?"

    "Umm"

    "You're selling the team, now gfto my office"

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marty Mcfly View Post
    It's a scandal what they're getting away with, I don't know much about the land development, but they're just being allowed to tank season after season.

    Disgusting corruption from MLB.

    Can you imagine the NFL allowing this to happen?

    "What do you mean you're flat-out refusing to do anything to improve the team?"

    "Umm"

    "You're selling the team, now gfto my office"
    For the best sports gifs and memes visit
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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marty Mcfly View Post
    It's a scandal what they're getting away with, I don't know much about the land development, but they're just being allowed to tank season after season.

    Disgusting corruption from MLB.

    Can you imagine the NFL allowing this to happen?

    "What do you mean you're flat-out refusing to do anything to improve the team?"

    "Umm"

    "You're selling the team, now gfto my office"
    Well to be fair, perpetual mediocrity without any direction is and was accepted in the NFL too.

    All you need to look at is the Cleveland Browns or Oakland Raiders now.

    And as for prior examples how about the Lions and Saints for all those years.

    Even the Jets before Parcells came in, how many years did they struggle?
    Last edited by metswon69; 11-05-2012 at 01:29 AM.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marty Mcfly View Post
    It's a scandal what they're getting away with, I don't know much about the land development, but they're just being allowed to tank season after season.

    Disgusting corruption from MLB.

    Can you imagine the NFL allowing this to happen?

    "What do you mean you're flat-out refusing to do anything to improve the team?"

    "Umm"

    "You're selling the team, now gfto my office"

    Pretty simple. Fred Wilpon and Saul Katz are real estate guys who largely snatched the team from Nelson Doubleday to start a big project across the street. The City is planning on kicking all their neighbors off their land so they can give it to Wilpon for free so he can develop a "neighborhood" on it.

    They plan on building a high rise and shopping on what's left of the parking lot adjacent to 126th Street and will develop the land across the street their neighbors are going to be kicked off of. The value of the land the City is giving them for free is $500,000,000. Total cost of the "neighborhood" is going to be at least $3 billion.

    Here's a piece about the development.

    http://articles.nydailynews.com/2012...erry-antonacci

    As much as anything this big handout is why Wilpon refuses to sell the Mets.

    As we've seen, he's not especially interested in baseball or winning.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by DisgruntledGoat View Post
    Why do we keep thinking that 2014 will be a significant year for acquisitions vis free agency? Yes Bay and Santana's contracts will be off the books BUT most of that $40million will have most likely already been Re-allocated to Wright and Dickey's contracts and while there may be $10-12Million left over, it's still not enough UNLESS payroll goes up, which until we put a team capable of competing at the major league level and ticket sales increase...won't be happening.

    I'm just saying...DON'T expect any significant change in the near to mid-term(1-5 year) future.
    Well said, which is why I advocate NOT re-signing Wright and Dickey to long term deals, and to trade them for young value.

    We already know the team is practically depending on having the young pitchers come up and do well. So why not trade for young legit bats ("A" prospects) that Wright and Dickey can get us back in trades????? Beltran got us Wheeler. Wright and Dickey can get us much more (especially since Dickey's stock is sky high right now).

    We would just be paying Wright to be the only good player on a bad team. That's not what I want. Trade Wright, get back legit prospects that can come up with our new pitchers, and save that money for the draft and international young signings.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by bootleg42 View Post
    Well said, which is why I advocate NOT re-signing Wright and Dickey to long term deals, and to trade them for young value.

    We already know the team is practically depending on having the young pitchers come up and do well. So why not trade for young legit bats ("A" prospects) that Wright and Dickey can get us back in trades????? Beltran got us Wheeler. Wright and Dickey can get us much more (especially since Dickey's stock is sky high right now).

    We would just be paying Wright to be the only good player on a bad team. That's not what I want. Trade Wright, get back legit prospects that can come up with our new pitchers, and save that money for the draft and international young signings.
    When fans begin worrying so much about Wilpon's wallet they advocate getting rid of the only really good player left to save Wilpon's money for the draft - something he always refused to spend on anyway - you know Fred and Sandy's propaganda has worked.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coupon View Post
    Pretty simple. Fred Wilpon and Saul Katz are real estate guys who largely snatched the team from Nelson Doubleday to start a big project across the street. The City is planning on kicking all their neighbors off their land so they can give it to Wilpon for free so he can develop a "neighborhood" on it.

    They plan on building a high rise and shopping on what's left of the parking lot adjacent to 126th Street and will develop the land across the street their neighbors are going to be kicked off of. The value of the land the City is giving them for free is $500,000,000. Total cost of the "neighborhood" is going to be at least $3 billion.

    Here's a piece about the development.

    http://articles.nydailynews.com/2012...erry-antonacci

    As much as anything this big handout is why Wilpon refuses to sell the Mets.

    As we've seen, he's not especially interested in baseball or winning.
    It's a shame that the multi-millioniare Wilpons will be given free land when there are so many poor and homeless people in the city, and in the country. Sickening. Bloomberg strikes again.

    Also on the team, it's going to stink. Don't go to the games, even if the Mets have a false great start like they had last season. The Wilpons are recovering their money they lost with Madoff with your money every time you go to a game and buy the overpriced hotdogs and soda.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by bootleg42 View Post
    Well said, which is why I advocate NOT re-signing Wright and Dickey to long term deals, and to trade them for young value.

    We already know the team is practically depending on having the young pitchers come up and do well. So why not trade for young legit bats ("A" prospects) that Wright and Dickey can get us back in trades????? Beltran got us Wheeler. Wright and Dickey can get us much more (especially since Dickey's stock is sky high right now).

    We would just be paying Wright to be the only good player on a bad team. That's not what I want. Trade Wright, get back legit prospects that can come up with our new pitchers, and save that money for the draft and international young signings.
    Your point about the Wilpons may be correct but you need to get your facts straight about payroll first.

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...1E&output=html

    The Mets have 13.5 million dollars dedicated towards the whole team then with the exception of Wright and Dickey.

    Even if they re-sign Wright and Dickey, we are still talking about a 40-50 million dollar payroll because Wright's first 2 years will most likely be at reduced salary and his contract backloaded.

    As for Dickey, there is a chance he might not be re-signed and dealt this offseason. That would lower payroll from that 45-50 million dollar estimate with the rest of the Mets players being arbitration eligible players.

    That's why people are pointing at 2014 because with a budget like that their should be payroll flexibility to improve the team quite dramatically.

    Does that happen? We don't know but the Mets won't have nearly the payroll obligations going into 2014 as they did going into this year with Bay, Santana, and Francisco gone.
    Last edited by metswon69; 11-05-2012 at 02:05 AM.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coupon View Post
    When fans begin worrying so much about Wilpon's wallet they advocate getting rid of the only really good player left to save Wilpon's money for the draft - something he always refused to spend on anyway - you know Fred and Sandy's propaganda has worked.
    Not really. I think you misunderstand my logic.

    I know the Wilpons are only going to spend a fixed amount of money for the next few years. It seems that nothing will change that. So if we know that, why spend the money on a long term contract on a 30+ year old Wright, when the money could be spent on the draft or international signings????

    Granted, the Wilpons almost never spend in the draft, and would dodge drafting players that would require money to sign (hence why they reached for Nimo). But we can make noise and force them to put the money in the farm in order to see a group of guys ready to contend.

    This is a tough situation, which can only really be solved by the Wilpons selling the team.

  10. #40
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    The Mets will be losing almost 57 million dollars in payroll in those 3 players alone nevermind where they cut fat in other areas.

    There is no real reasonable excuse for the Wilpons not to spend money on the 2014 payroll.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by bootleg42 View Post
    It's a shame that the multi-millioniare Wilpons will be given free land when there are so many poor and homeless people in the city, and in the country. Sickening. Bloomberg strikes again.

    Also on the team, it's going to stink. Don't go to the games, even if the Mets have a false great start like they had last season. The Wilpons are recovering their money they lost with Madoff with your money every time you go to a game and buy the overpriced hotdogs and soda.
    I agree. I haven't bought a ticket from the Wilpons since 2009.

    Fact is, unfortunately people still go and the Mets make a mint. I can't support them trading Wright and Dickey to rebuild when the Mets revenue is strong enough to fill all their gaps through free agent signings or taking on salaries other teams want to get rid of. Most of the teams current needs were created by the salary dumps of Reyes, Pagan and Beltran. There were your outfielders and team speed.

    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    The Mets will be losing almost 57 million dollars in payroll in those 3 players alone nevermind where they cut fat in other areas.

    There is no real reasonable excuse for the Wilpons not to spend money on the 2014 payroll.
    There's no reasonable excuse for them not to spend money on 2013 payroll.

    Quote Originally Posted by bootleg42 View Post
    Not really. I think you misunderstand my logic.

    I know the Wilpons are only going to spend a fixed amount of money for the next few years. It seems that nothing will change that. So if we know that, why spend the money on a long term contract on a 30+ year old Wright, when the money could be spent on the draft or international signings????

    Granted, the Wilpons almost never spend in the draft, and would dodge drafting players that would require money to sign (hence why they reached for Nimo). But we can make noise and force them to put the money in the farm in order to see a group of guys ready to contend.

    This is a tough situation, which can only really be solved by the Wilpons selling the team.
    Unfortunately fans making noise won't change much. The Wilpons have no sense of shame. People are just going to have to stop buying tickets, merchandise, etc. Even then they'll hang on like barnacles, but if it's a national scandal maybe bastard Bud will at least make Wilpon spend. As you said, it's a tough situation.

    As team owners, citizens and humans, the Wilpons are scum.
    Last edited by Coupon; 11-05-2012 at 01:33 AM.

  12. #42
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    Like I've said before, David Wright is a national superstar, fan favorite who will make, and has made, a lot of money for this team. I believe he is a must to resign. I mean, you need some sort of production. Without Wright, imagine how horrible the Mets would be. They would dead last in the east, national league, and maybe even the majors. Wright doesn't only produce when he plays, he makes players around him better.

    With that said, if he absolutely cannot be resigned, then we have to trade him and really brace ourselves and prepare for a long stretch of straight forward **** until the prospects are ready.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coupon View Post
    There's no reasonable excuse for them not to spend money on 2013 payroll.

    Thing is fans making noise won't change much. The Wilpons have no sense of shame.

    As team owners, citizens and humans, the Wilpons are scum.
    There isn't an excuse for 2013 but there is even less for one next year.

    45-50 million dollars in payroll obligation between 3 contracted players and the rest arbitration eligible guys has to leave room for significant payroll flexibility.

    Met fans know the albatrosses that are Bay, Santana, and Francisco's contracts are gone in 2014 and going to expect this team to make upgrades.

    If the Wilpons want to make money on this team anytime in the near future, they are going to have to improve this team dramatically before people come back to the ballpark.
    Last edited by metswon69; 11-05-2012 at 02:05 AM.

  14. #44
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    Don't get me wrong i hate the idea of them throwing 2013 by the way side too but if Bud isn't going to displace these guys as owners it is what it is.

    Hopefully 2014 allows for the ability to add players of significant impact and not the scrap heap guys we have been acquiring the last 2 years because of said limited flexibility.

    That's been their argument since Sandy got here but that cloak is gone next year.

    It's pretty transparent that they've been talking up 2014 as the year where they'll be able to make significant moves.

    Well for their box office sake, they might want to make sure that is the case.
    Last edited by metswon69; 11-05-2012 at 01:50 AM.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    There isn't for 2013 either but even less for next year.

    40-50 million dollars in payroll obligation between 3 players and the rest arbitration eligible guys has to leave room for significant payroll flexibility.

    Met fans know the albatrosses that are Bay, Santana, and Francisco's contracts are gone in 2014 and going to expect this team to make upgrades.

    If the Wilpons want to make money on this team anytime in the near future, they are going to have to improve this team dramatically before people come back to the ballpark.
    They don't see it your way. They're making a lot of money. Ballpark revenue in Forbes was $225 million in the most recent Forbes listing. Their share of SNY and all T.V. revenue must be at least as much annually.

    If they spend and lose anyway, revenue won't go up much. Even with an awful team they draw announced crowds of no less than 20,000 per game. Between die hard suckers and corporate sales this seems to be as low as attendance goes. They obviously figure they clear more money with less risk putting out a cheap, bad team.

    People need to get serious about not going to any more games. If attendance drops low enough they'll get the message. Unfortunately people keep buying tickets and filling their pockets. I think next time they spend will be when the mall is getting ready to open.

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