Pirates Offseason Discussion Thread

[burgh_fan66]

Haha not especially, I knew it was coming and while the return (as of now) wasn't quite what I was hoping for, it could have been a lot worse.

Combination of just being busy (holidays and start of student teaching) and not really having much to add really. I didn't know a whole lot about the guys we got in return and was basically just listening to everyone else discuss it

Glad to see. It actually wasn't all that bad. Melancon should be a nice reliever for us and Pimentel is an interesting wildcard. Sands I'm not really sold on but I guess there is some chance there as well.

[burgh_fan66]

I often find myself thinking about very random things especially when it comes to the Pirates. Well today I was thinking about what players consistute the bottom of the 40 man roster and who are therefore most likely to be removed by season's start. That got me thinking about the other end. Who are the Pirates 5 most valuable players on the 40 man roster.

#1 is obviously Andrew McCutchen and to me 2-4 are fairly obviously Marte, Alvarez and Walker in some order but who is #5?

There really isn't an obvious choice but let me list out who I think are the primary candidates.

A.J. Burnett - Burnett posted a 3.4 WAR last season, double any other Pirates pitcher and at 8 million is a bargain but only 1 year of control hurts his value.

James McDonald - If not for the second half collapse McDonald would be the obvious choice. He has 3 years of control remaining and was on his way to a 4+ WAR season before his collapse

Garrett Jones - Jones has 3 years of control left and posted a solid 1.9 WAR last season. His offensive numbers look good but as a 1B/RF they aren't much above average

Jose Tabata - Tabata has a very team friendly contract and 7 years of control remaining. Even as a 1.5-2 WAR player he would have a lot of value but his horrible 2012 cast doubts on even that modest possibility

Travis Snider - Snider has 4 years of team control remaining, some power potential and a fair amount of upside. He really hasn't put everything together in the majors yet though and that limits his value.

Those would appear to be the logical choices but I'll give you one a bit off the radar:

Michael McKenry - As a backup catcher McKenry may not seem to have a lot of value but he has 5 years of control remaining (2 of which may be at league min) and posted a 1.9 WAR in only 275 PA last season. The main knock against him is that may have been more of a fluke than anything.

I suppose Wandy Rodriguez and Russell Martin could also enter this discussion but I don't really see an argument for either of them. Wandy only has one year of team control remaining as '14 is a player option and Martin was just paid market price meaning his excess value should be minimum.

[tripleplayer543]

the pirates released vandenhirk today i wonder what moves could be a foot ?????

[burgh_fan66]

the pirates released vandenhirk today i wonder what moves could be a foot ?????

Probably not much. Liriano still needs a spot and it looks like van der Hurk is headed overseas.

[burgh_fan66]

Not sure I get this one. Pirates acquired Jeanmar Gomez from the Cleveland Indians.

He is a right handed pitcher who was recently DFA'd and he has spent most of his poor (career 5.18 ERA) major league career as a starter. He is out of options so he joins Leroux and Mazzaro as borderline players who need to be kept on the 25 man roster or waived.

To acquire him the Pirates gave up Quincy Latimore who while he isn't much of a prospect he has a lot of raw power which makes him at least semi-interesting.

At the end of the day this isn't a horrible move but it just doesn't seem to really make any sense to me.

[Tomahawk27]

This seemed like making a trade for the sake of making a trade

[burgh_fan66]

Pretty much that is what it is. I mean Gomez is kind of an interesting because he is still kind of young and has played parts of 3 seasons in the majors but really there is nothing at all special about those 3 seasons.

On the flip side Latimore isn't anything major in his own right and with Ford and Pie recently signed there probably isn't any room for him in the AAA OF but still I don't really get the point. Still I'll put it on the board as a NH trade and according to my I'm sure very pourous record keeping it is trade #60.

[Tomahawk27]

Ehh with all the young guys we have battling for a spot in the rotation and with Morton coming back later, I'd like to have a guy with power potential. Would Latimore ever have made it? Probably not but will Gomez make a meaningful contribution? He hasn't shown that he can in 3 attempts thus far

[burgh_fan66]

True I mean there is a fair amount of pitching depth down in AAA and while the OF may be full in AAA Latimore could of been used in AA. Right now those 3 spots look like the will be manned by some combination of Justin Howard, Oscar Tejeda, Andy Vasquez, Drew Maggi, Mel Rojas, Evan Chambers, Andrew Lambo and Dan Grovatt. A lot of bodies sure but only the last 4 are actually OFs and none of them are too impressive right now.

[burgh_fan66]

The Blue Jays have DFA'd Chad Beck. We should claim him again and try to sneak him through waivers again just to see if the Blue Jays would claim him once more.

[Tomahawk27]

Twins would probably beat them to it

[burgh_fan66]

The more I think about it the more I coming to the conclusion that dealing Jones may not be too bad after all. Don't get me wrong I wouldn't do it unless the return was something significant like a young SP with years of control who could help right away or a good shortstop prospect but I see a Snider/Tabata platoon in right being very effective until one eventually takes the job out right and at 1B I think giving Sands a shot could be worth it and if he fails Sanchez is there and should be able to provide major league average production from a 1B.

I still hope Jones ends up being part of the 2013 Pirates but for a good price I don't think I could complain too much if he was dealt.

[burgh_fan66]

Not really much going on right now. Haven't heard any Jones rumors and nothing really new on the SP front. I suspect the Pirates will add a SP some time realtively soon and I would also like to see a LH reliever and a LH bench option added but I don't know if we will get those.

With the exception of another starter be it Liriano or someone else I think what we have now is what we are going to go with. So that makes me wnder if maybe Justin Wilson will be given a chance to make the major league team as a RP or if they will want him starting in AAA again. It also makes me wonder if Harrison and Mercer are both locks for the bench or will De Jesus and d'Arnaud push them. And of course the Pirates glut of 1B/OF options is probably the biggest question facing the team. Just how are they going to divide up the playing time with all these guys who need to prove themselves.

[burgh_fan66]

Ok well this is certainly new. Its going to take some time to get used to this new layout.

[Tomahawk27]

Ok well this is certainly new. Its going to take some time to get used to this new layout.

I know, I rarely ever like changes made and this is certainly no different. The older version seemed cleaner and easier to navigate. I wonder why people feel the need to "update" the appearance. This seems like a Pirates update for the sake of updating