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  1. #361
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    Hanrahan/Holt for Sands/DeJesus/Pimental/Melancon

    How do you guys feel about this?

  2. #362
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superdude View Post
    Hanrahan/Holt for Sands/DeJesus/Pimental/Melancon

    How do you guys feel about this?
    A lot of Pirates fan are going to be upset about trading Brock Holt and with reason he showed himself pretty well last season in the majors. However he is not a shortstop and he wasn't going to supplant Walker at 2B. I would have liked to see him as the utility player over Harrison but that is a minor point.

    Overall I see this as two trades:

    Holt for De Jesus, Pimental

    Holt and De Jesus are similar middle infield utility players but Holt has the more upside which necessitates a lottery ticket like Pimenetal being added. Really we are talking about two guys here who at best would compete for a second bench middle infield job this upcoming season and a pitching prospect who is struggling to get out of AA. None of these 3 players are of really much value and what value they have likely cancel each other out. So the trade really boils down to:

    Hanrahan for Melancon and Sands

    Hanrahan is obviously an upgrade over Melancon but Melancon is better than he has been perceived and should make for a good set up man for the Pirates. His experience in the NL Central, only a year ago, is a big plus. Still Hanrahan is clearly more valuable than Melancon but the years of control limits the difference some. Sands is another addition to already overloaded group of unproven corner outfielders. He definitely has some potential and is probably more than enough to make up for the difference between Melancon and Hanrahan.

    Bottom line I think value wise the Pirates got more value here but only slightly. The Red Sox lost nothing they will sorely miss and in a way neither did the Pirates as Hanrahan was erratic enough last season that having Grilli replace him and Melancon step into Grilli's role could actually be an upgrade for the Pirates. Basically this is a pretty even trade that each team got what they were looking for. Boston some certainty in the back of the bullpen and the Pirates a slight drop in bullpen production, but cheaper and more control and some decent upside pieces.
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  3. #363
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superdude View Post
    Hanrahan/Holt for Sands/DeJesus/Pimental/Melancon

    How do you guys feel about this?
    not a bad trade but not one thats going to turn this team into a contender this year.but i dont think it ends here either i still expect 1 or 2 more deals. i dont see garret jones heading to fla with the bucs and one or two of the out fielders. i know the white sox are looking for a lh power hitter with gavin floyd as the prize dont know if he is worth that much but their arent much better available. the rangers are also looking for some bats. i was suprised that holt was included but id rather have him in the deal with what was aquired then jones or sanchez

  4. #364
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    I do not trust our FO. This has classic 2000-2009 Pirates move written all over it.

  5. #365
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    Quote Originally Posted by SenecaValley46 View Post
    I do not trust our FO. This has classic 2000-2009 Pirates move written all over it.
    I think its better than most think.

    1.27 WHIP, 1.86 K/BB, 4.45 FIP, 4.28 xFIP, .225 BABIP, 89.7 LOB%, 12.5 HR/FB%
    1.27 WHIP, 3.42 K/BB, 4.58 FIP, 3.45 xFIP, .285 BABIP, 59.4 LOB%, 22.2 HR/FB%

    Those are the stat lines of Hanrahan and Melancon for 2012. The first player is Hanrahan and the second set of numbers are Melancon's. Looking at WHIP, K/BB, FIP and xFIP I think it is clear Melancon actually was the better pitcher. Also looking at his BABIP and LOB% it appears Hanrahan was lucky and looking at Melancon's LOB% and HR/FB% it appears he was unlucky.
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  6. #366
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    i am not sure where to post this so ill just drop it here did any one catch the spot on espn last night about Clemente and Niel walkers dad. they talked about the night soon 40 years ago when Clemente and walker loaded the plane to fly relief supply's to Nicaragua. the air port mechanic wanted to delay the flight Manny sanguien didn't like it that the tires on the plane where pushed down by the weight of the plane. for those that didn't see it Niels dad was a ml pitcher and befriended Clemente . he helped load the plane and then asked to fly with and Roberto told him no go party. if he years agohad followed Clemente Niel would never have been born.one other think i guess Manny has forgotten how to speak English as he talked only in Spanish. i remember from my youth that he wasn't fluent in English but he could still speak it. god its hard to believe that happened 40 years ago. i lived on the north side of st louis that dark day. i was out side playing football with Friends and had come in for dinner a bowl game was on and they flashed a picture of Roberto on the TV and my first thought was what are they picking on him for now i had only been a pirates fan 3 years but i knew the contempt for some of the sports writers had for Clemente and the pirates. a few minuets later they again flashed his picture and this time i herd what they where saying and like millions of other pirates and baseball fans i was left speechless by the news i followed it on TV for the next 5 days until they recovered the pilots body and called off the search.he was a great baseball player and a great man and he will be missed always

  7. #367
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    Chad Beck who I am assuming most people forgot was on the 40 man roster has been DFA'd. I believe one more spot needs to be opened up once the Liriano signing becomes official.
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  8. #368
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    With the Hanrahan trade behind us the next move we can probably expect the Pirates to make is moving one of their 1B or corner OF types. There is no need to necessarily make a move since Marte, Presley, Sands and Robinson all have options remaining but I don't see Marte starting in AAA and I can't imagine the Pirates aren't going to give Sands a chance right out of the gate.

    All of this means someone in the Jones, Sanchez, Snider, Tabata quartet is likely to be moved. To get Sands on the roster it would appear moving Tabata or Sanchez would be the ideal move (swap out a RH for a RH) but there has been some speculation about Jones as well.

    I guess once again we have to stay tuned.
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  9. #369
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    The Pirates have had a fair amount of turnover this offseason. Not counting Morton and Grilli who were off the 40 man roster for a little while this offseason the Pirates have added 12 players to the current 40 man roster, are in the process of adding another and have had three new faces come and go off the roster.

    ReAdded: Morton, Grilli
    Added Still On: Sanchez, Black, Irwin, Strickland, Stewart, Mazzaro, Robinson, Oliver, Melancon, Pimentel, Sands, Martin
    Added Since Removed: Cabrera, Beck, Solis
    Soon to be Added: Liriano

    That is a lot of turnover for what had seemed like a quiet offseason just one short week ago. Also the Pirates had a glut of utility infielders on the 40 man roster in d'Arnuad, Mercer, Harrison, Holt, Navarro and Nunez and have worked nicely to clear some of that out so now its only d'Arnaud, Mercer and Harrison. Now the glut is in the 1B/COF in Jones, Sanchez, Robinson, Sands, Marte, Snider, Presley and Tabata.

    As for what else I see the Pirates doing this offseason I imagine we will see a trade of one of those 1B/COF types and probably a bullpen arm (hopefully a LH) brought in.
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  10. #370
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    Another slow news cycle for us Pirates fans. I'm sure we will here some Garrett Jones rumors after the new year and probably a relief pitcher signing or two to a minor league deal. I'm hoping for a left handed version of Cruz/Veras as I think that would nicely set up our bullpen.

    CL: Grilli
    SU: Melancon
    MR: Morris
    MR: Watson
    MR: Hughes
    MR: FA lefty
    LR: Leroux
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  11. #371
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    I'm planning a blog post on this but thought I'd share the results here. I decided to look at the starting 8 for each team in the NL Central and I asked myself if I was forming a team for 2013 in what order would I select the players at each position. Well for the Pirates the results were:

    C: Martin - 3rd (out of 5)
    1B: Jones - 5th
    2B: Walker - 2nd
    3B: Alvarez - 4th
    SS: Barmes - 4th
    LF: Marte - 3rd
    CF: McCutchen - 1st
    RF: Snider - 4th

    My choices are of course subjective but the Pirates only have one player I would consider the worst in the division at their position and that is Jones. Snider, Barmes and even Marte are even debateable but if I'm forming a team for 2013 I'd take them over at least 1 of the other starters in the division. That is a positive of course but on the downside only McCutchen and Walker rank higher than middle of the pack and even Walker is probably a debateable choice. Just food for thought, I'm going to take a look at the rotation and maybe bullpen as well.
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  12. #372
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    40 years ago today is a sad day in pirates history. on dec 31st 1972 the great roberto clemente died in a plane crash of the coast of puerto rico

  13. #373
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    Happy New Year to all.

    Not much Pirates news to discuss right at the moment but in the next day or two I would figure the Liriano signing will become official and someone will need to be removed from the 40 man roster. The Pirates might have a deal in the works to clear up a spot but for now if we assume its going to be opened by releasing someone there appears to be a few options remaining.

    Chris Leroux, Vin Mazzaro, Rick VandenHurk
    - All of 3 of these pitchers are not locks to make the team out of Spring Training and have no options remaining meaning if they don't stick with the Pirates they will need to be waived.

    Andrew Oliver, Stolmy Pimentel, Zach Stewart, Hunter Strickland, Duke Welker
    - Highly doubt any of these players are removed as all of them except Welker were just added this offseason but they do represent the bottom of the pitchers on the 40 man roster. All of them have at least one option remaining.

    Chase d'Arnaud, Clint Robinson, Alex Presley
    - When Nunez, Navarro and Holt were all on the roster d'Arnaud looked like a real possibility but now since the Pirates have cleared the glut some he probably stays. Robinson and Presley are on the out skirts of the 1B/OF glut meaning it wouldn't be a shock to see either removed from the roster but I'd lean towards both staying.

    That is pretty much the bottom of the roster as things stand now. I would be surprised to see the Pirates remove any position players and I would be surprised to any pitcher with an option left go as well. To me the best options look like the pitchers who are out of options and of that group I give VandenHurk the least chance of making the team so I'd expect he'll be the one to go.
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  14. #374
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomahawk27 View Post
    I'll be interested to see who the remaining players are. I may be wrong but as of now, are any of the guys we got in return major league ready?
    You've been suspiciously quiet lately Tomahawk. Hanrahan trade got you down?
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  15. #375
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    Quote Originally Posted by burgh_fan66 View Post
    You've been suspiciously quiet lately Tomahawk. Hanrahan trade got you down?
    Haha not especially, I knew it was coming and while the return (as of now) wasn't quite what I was hoping for, it could have been a lot worse.

    Combination of just being busy (holidays and start of student teaching) and not really having much to add really. I didn't know a whole lot about the guys we got in return and was basically just listening to everyone else discuss it

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