Pirates Offseason Discussion Thread

[nickster16301]

Yeah, I'll pass on Martin. If we could have had the Martin of 5 years ago or so, I'd be interested but we have other holes to fill with that money. Add to the fact that he might not be a huge upgrade over Barajas and we essentially flush that money down the toilet.

I'm not going to say that I'm thrilled having McKenry as the starter (as of now) but we should see Sanchez at some point this season one would think. He's not an offensive powerhouse himself but I have a feeling he will be an upgrade

Mckenry will be nothing but a good backup...as soon as he got the majority of the playing time he struggled and you cant just count on sanchez. Another thing too is it sends a message to the team that they are upgrading at a position that was awful last year.

[burgh_fan66]

Mckenry will be nothing but a good backup...as soon as he got the majority of the playing time he struggled and you cant just count on sanchez. Another thing too is it sends a message to the team that they are upgrading at a position that was awful last year.

I don't buy that last part. Barajas, Barmes, Overbay and so on were all brought in because that supposedly upgraded a position on the team that was awful the season before. I don't see how Martin is really going to be much different. He will probably be an upgrade but not one of much substance. Wasting 20+ million dollars on him looks like a mistake however if he comes I will of course pray he proves me wrong and somehow miraculously revert back to the player he was 5 years ago.

[RTL]

Ken Rosenthal of FOXSports.com reports that the Pirate have reached a deal with Russell Martin, pending a physical.
Rosenthal doesn't have the particulars yet, but it seems likely that Martin got the three years from the Pirates that the Yankees were unwilling to give him. Jon Heyman of CBSSports.com reported Wednesday that the Bucs offered the backstop a three-year pact in the $25 million range. If the Pirates' deal with Martin is finalized, look for the Yankees to go after A.J. Pierzynski.

So sorry for you guys! I hope he puts it all together in Pittsburgh because I want to see them win goddamnit!

[tripleplayer543]

So sorry for you guys

not realy sold on martin either but looks like they got him now they need another sp and a couple lh relievers and a lf er. oh and the nationals traded a pitcher for spahn

[burgh_fan66]

not realy sold on martin either but looks like they got him now they need another sp and a couple lh relievers and a lf er. oh and the nationals traded a pitcher for spahn

That's exactly the problem. With so many holes spending 17 million dollas on a catcher who really isn't an upgrade solves nothing. All it is now is an albatross of a contract the next GM will have to deal with in 2014.

[burgh_fan66]

I swear if they non tender Karstens tomorrow over 4-5 million while giving this guy 17 million I'm going to flip.

[RTL]

Guess I was wrong burgh_fan66 and you were right, one of Martin and Pierzynski will get more than $8 million/year.

[burgh_fan66]

Guess I was wrong burgh_fan66 and you were right, one of Martin and Pierzynski will get more than $8 million/year.

Yay for me. Too bad it was my team that handed out the contract. I just don't see any scenario where this ends well. Martin was a little unlucky with his BABIP this past season so lets give him his 2011 average of .237 and OBP of .324. Now his slugging the two years before coming to Yankee stadium was .329 and .332. He recieved a 70 point jump when coming to the offensive friendly stadium. Lets be fair and split the difference and say he'll have a .360 slugging percentage with the Pirates. So that gives him a triple slash line of .237/.324/.360. Or a .684 OPS in my rather optimistic scenario. He threw out 24% of runners last season but Barajas threw out 25% before coming to Pittsburgh. Lets again be optimistic and say his age will prevent as large of a fall off and he'll manage to throw out 12%.

Right there is the best possible outcome I can see coming from Martin. Is that really good enough to commit 17 million dollars to? This looks like a desperation move by NH in an attempt to save his job much like Littlefield's acquisition of Matt Morris. I just see no possible way the Pirates benefit from this deal.

[burgh_fan66]

Trying to stay positive here Martin had a good walk rate so if his average sees even a slight uptick (which his BABIP suggest should happen) he could have a 340 OBP which would look nice near the top of the order. Not going to happen but:

Walker, 2B
Martin, C
Cutch, CF
Jones, 1B
Alvarez, 3B
Marte, LF
Snider, RF
Barmes, SS

That could work out fairly well if Martin can rebound but no way we see it.

[burgh_fan66]

OK enough being brought down by the signing of Martin. Today is a much more important day for the Pirates. Today is the deadline to tender contracts to all players both arbitration and league min guys. The arbitration ones are the only ones really of note though and specifically the only one worth caring about on the Pirates is Jeff Karstens. Hanrahan, Jones, Walker, Sanchez and McDonald will all be tendered and whether Resop and Morton are make very little difference. The only one who might be non tendered who truly makes a difference in how the Pirates are going to have to conduct the rest of this offseason is Karstens.

If you have any sense at all NH I beg you to give Karstens the 4-5 million, you aren't going to find a better pitcher for that price no matter how hard you look.

[burgh_fan66]

Going to try and make a positive about this Bill James has Russell Martin pegged for a .340 OBP. Before going to the Yankees and positing a .252 and .22 BABIP Martin had a .284 and .287 BABIP in the two prior season with the Dodgers. That is pretty much in line with his career .286 BABIP. In those years Martin had a .352 and .347 OBP. If he can get back to those numbers Martin probably becomes our best option at leadoff. If the Pirates are going to try and use him creatively like that I might just be able to get behind this. Just have him completely refocus on fine tuning his OBP skills. His power is going to largely disappear anyway so we might as well. Martin for leadoff!

[burgh_fan66]

Details of Martin's contract are a 2 million dollar signing bonus, 6.5 million for 2013 and 8.5 million for 2014.

[burgh_fan66]

What I'm hoping to see the rest of this offseason is to see Karstens tendered today. Hanrahan traded for a starting pitcher like Porcello from the Tigers. Grilli resigned or another free agent like Kyle Farnsworth signed to temporarily fill the closer position. A couple of other low level bullpen options brought in and a utility player brought in to compete with Mercer and Harrison for a bench job.

Martin, C
Jones, 1B
Walker, 2B
Alvarez, 3B
Barmes, SS
Marte, LF
McCutchen, CF
Snider, RF

McKenry, C
Sanchez, CI
Harrison/Mercer, MI
Tabata, OF
Harrison/Mercer/FA, U

Burnett, SP
Rodriguez, SP
Porcello, SP
Karstens, SP
McDonald, SP

Farnswroth, CL
Morris, SU
Hughes, MR
Watson, MR
Leroux, LR
Open
Open

The final two bullpen spots should be an open competition between the likes of Beck, VandenHurk, Stewart, Mazzaro, Wilson, Welker, and anyone else they sign. Maybe even throw Resop in one of those openings if he is tendered.

[tripleplayer543]

Details of Martin's contract are a 2 million dollar signing bonus, 6.5 million for 2013 and 8.5 million for 2014.

the pirates offered martin 3 years but he turned it down to rebuild his portfolio for another long term deal also martin can play first second and third base if needed

[TyWvU18]

The Pirates will not tender Jeff Karstens a contract.
It's not a surprise, as Karstens was due a raise after making $3.1 million in 2012. He'll have no trouble catching on somewhere, though, as Karstens was a pretty useful piece for the Bucs over the last two seasons, posting a 3.38 ERA over 162 1/3 innings in 2011 and a 3.97 mark over 90 2/3 frames in 2012.
Nov 30 - 3:34 PM

Kinda disappointed really liked Karstens