Pirates Offseason Discussion Thread

[burgh_fan66]

I seen an interesting topic posed on Bucs Dugout. The task was to assemble the best 25 man roster using current players who were once with the Pirates organization. Here is mine I wonder what the PSD community thinks.

1. McCutchen, LF
2. Walker, 2B
3. Bautista, RF
4. Ramirez, 3B
5. LaRoche, 1B
6. Marte, CF
7. Cruz, SS
8. Martin, C

Ross, C
Keppinger, IF
Cedeno, IF
Alvarez, CI
Ludwick, OF

Burnett
Voglesong
Rodriguez
Arroyo
Maholm

Lincoln
Dotel
Melancon
Burnett
Lopez
Grilli
Hanrahan

Others I considered:
Catcher: Doumit, Kratz, McKenry
1st Base: Jones, Sanchez, Moss
MI: Barmes, Freddy Sanchez
OF: Bay, Moss, Jones
SP: McDonald, Karstens
RP: Capps, Gonzalez, Lyon, Veras, Gorzelanny

Explanation
I believe as far as the lineup is concerned most are no brainers but I'll elaborate on some. I feel McCutchen and Bautista are locks for the outfield and I went with Marte because none of the other options really stand out and he has a huge upisde for 2013 and beyond. In the infield LaRoche is clearly the Pirates best 1B unless you want to move Alvarez or Ramirez over. Walker is head and shoulders above the rest of the 2B crop. 3B came down to Ramirez or Alvarez and I went with Ramirez due to past perfomance but kept Alvarez on the bench due to his upside and left handed power. Shortstop really ha dnothing so I took a chance with Cruz. As far as catcher Martin appears to me to be the best of a mediocre lot.

For the bench I feel Ross is one of the best backup catchers in the game and unlike Doumit he is actually a catcher. Alvarez I already discussed and Ludwick was my best choice for a power hitting RH stick on the bench. That left me with two infield bench spots and I wanted some versatility. Keppinger is the best of the lot so I naturally choose him but unfortunately he really can't play SS so I had to choose someone who could with the last spot. The best two options I could think of were Cedeno and Barmes. Both are good enough fielders to handle being the backup shortstop but Cedeno I feel gave me more with the bat and has a touch more versatility as he has played a little OF in the past.

For the rotation I felt Burnett, Rodriguez and Voglesong were locks. I like rotations with a second lefty and Maholm was clearly at least about even with the remaining right handers so I selected him. The fifth and finals spot came down to the innings eater Arroyo and the upside James McDonald. In the back of a rotation especially one with age issues at the top I like innings eaters so I went with Arroyo.

As for the bullpen I felt Lopez and Burnett were my best options from the left side and I think Grilli and Hanrahan gives me my best back end. That left three spots and I wanted a legnth pitcher, a strike out guy and a ground ball guy. I really liked Lincoln in his legnth role last year so I made him the long reliever, Dotel has had an excellent career striking hitters out so I took him as my strikeout guy and Melancon has a great ground ball rate so I took him as my middle innings DP specialists.

So what does everyone think? Feel free to create your own roster and let me know if I made any big oversights.

[Tomahawk27]

I'm assuming this list is only players who are still in the MLB? As in, no retirees?

[burgh_fan66]

Yes current, meaning active, players.

[Tomahawk27]

In that case, I think you got all of them. I couldn't think of anyone else to add/change

[burgh_fan66]

I know these are never going to happen but I think I've figured out some lineups I'd like to see the Pirates try.

vs RH
Walker, 2B
Jones, 1B
Cutch, CF
Alvarez, 3B
Snider, RF
Marte, LF
Martin/McKenry, C
Barmes, SS

vs LH
Tabata, RF
Martin, C / Sanchez, 1B
Cutch, CF
Alvarez, 3B
Marte, LF
Sanchez, 1B / McKenry, C
Walker, 2B
Barmes, SS

So essentially platoons of Jones/Sanchez at 1B and Snider/Tabata in RF. Martin hits 2nd against LH but when McKenry starts against a left handed pitcher he hits 6th and Sanchez moves up to 2 spot. So what do you think? Crazy I know and we are never going to see it but I think it would probably be one of our best options.

[Tomahawk27]

They're different/interesting, I'll give you that lol. I'd personally have:

vs RH

Snider, RF
Walker, 2B
Cutch, CF
Alvarez, 3B
Marte, LF
Jones, 1B
Martin, C
Barmes, SS

vs LH

Tabata, RF
Walker, 2B
Cutch, CF
Alvarez, 3B
Marte, LF
Sanchez, 1B
Martin, C
Barmes, SS

[burgh_fan66]

No Starling Marte leading off? And here I thought you were the leader of the opposition. The LH could make some sense but Walker isn't all that good when batting right which is why I dropped him in my lineup. The vs RH seems good except Snider is probably less a leadoff hitter than Marte even though he did show some positive signs last year when forced into the 2 spot. I want to keep Snider lower in the order to see if he can focus more on his power potential rather than concentrating on getting on base.

As for my strange quirks in the lineups, primarily I'm guessing my two hole decisions they are based largely on OBP. Outside of Walker and McCutchen, Jones has shown to be our best player at getting on base against right handers hence his inclusion at #2. Against lefties both Martin and Sanchez have shown in the past an ability to get on base against lefties at a very high rate. To me the name of the game is getting people on in front of Cutch and Alvarez and I think those top of the orders while odd gives us the best chance to do so.

[Tomahawk27]

Ehh I still think he could pull it off but I've started to side with you and a few other people in that his K/BB rate is a bit high for leadoff but his speed and base stealing skills are so tempting. Just imagine getting him on base, stealing 2nd and then having Walker, Cutch, and Alvarez with a chance to drive him home.

For RH, I could see switching Marte and Walker in the order but I think Snider could potentially do well. He's a lefty, has decent speed and power, and a better OBP than Marte.

[burgh_fan66]

Just some notes. Cole and Taillon have been invited to Spring Training. The Pirates officially announced their deal with Lucas May who has also been invited to Spring Training (you always need catchers). And in sort of an interesting move the Pirates have also signed Brad Hawpe to a minor league deal with an invite to spring training. Ordinarily I wouldn't even call it interesting just a player for the AAA outfield but the Pirates already signed Ford and Pie for that earlier this offseason. Kind of curious they would add another but oh well.

[Tomahawk27]

I was just going to post most of what you said lol. I would love it if Cole somehow came in and blew everyone away but I know it's not going to happen.

Hawpe does seem odd. You would think that with Ford, Pie, and then the possibility of Presley, Robinson, Sands, or Tabata, the last thing they would spend money on would be another OF. A trade in the near future?

[burgh_fan66]

Its a minor league contract so its really no big deal but they have quite a stockpile of potential AAA OF. Adalberto Santos should definitely moving up. Andrew Lambo could be given another try. Hawpe, Ford and Pie are all here on minor league deals. At least 1 and quite possibly two of Tabata/Sands/Presley will be there. Also with Curry and Robinson likely handling the 1B/DH duties, Matt Hague and Jeff Larish are possibilities for the outfield as well.

That is like 8 players for the AAA OF. You are going to start 3 and then the bench will consist of the DH (probably Robinson), a backup catcher (May or Solis), a reserve middle infielder (Anderson Hernandez probably) and then two more spots one of which would go to an OF and the other which will probably go to somewhere with a bit of versatility.

[burgh_fan66]

Karstens signing is official and Zach Stewart was DFA'd. Not really a big deal but since he had an option remaining I would have thought he would have stayed over someone like Mazzaro or Gomez.

[burgh_fan66]

This is about a wekk old but I thought it was interesting. Its from bleacher report which ordinarily I wouldn't post but this sounds like an interesting idea. The article talks about how Jose Tabata could be a fit for the Braves need for a LF and a lead off hitter. It goes on to mention that it could make sense for them to give Randall Delgado back in return.

Delgado was a top prospect at the beginning of last season and came up and pitched fairly servicably for the Braves last year. His minor league numbers have never been flashy and from his walk rates I assume he has a bit of a control issue but he'd be a fairly intriguing return for Tabata. He doesn't even have a full year of service time in yet so the Pirates could control him for 6 more seasons.

As for why the Braves would do this we all know Tabata's upside. He has some great OBP skills and when healthy is a very good base runner. He could potentialy be a perfect fit atop a contender's lineup. Also his contract is ridicuously team friendly. I'm not condoning trading Tabata as it would be a terrible sell low choice but if the Pirates could get a return liek Delgado it could make sense given our glut of OF options.

[burgh_fan66]

Also there are 8 Pirates participating in the WBC.

For Canada: Taillon, Martin and Leroux
- Taillon is obviously the most interesting but Martin has reportedly been lobbying to play SS for team Canada. That would be interesting to see.

For Dominican Republic: Wandy Rodriguez
For Italy: Jason Grilli
For Puerto Rico: Ivan De Jesus
For Australia: Stefan Welch
For Mexico: Ali Solis (oddly enough he is the backup catcher to Rod Barajas)

[burgh_fan66]

On second thought my understanding of the revenue sharing process seems to be really poor.