Pirates Offseason Discussion Thread

[burgh_fan66]

Well, I'll divert people back to my Hanrahan question but I'll also answer the Correia question.

It's pretty much everything Burgh said. I can't say I ever really liked him bu that's probably due to the fact that I always thought we could get similar results with our younger guys and get them experience at the same time.

Also wanted to point out that it was our friends the Twins who signed him. Just as the Cardinals are Steelers West, the Twins are Pirates North

Yeah they kind of are ... Doumit, Correia, Clement, Fryer, Wood, Boleska and Martis are recent Pirates they have picked up in the last year. Just off the top of my head of course.

[Tomahawk27]

Ah yes your question. How could I forget. Hanrahan has one year of arbitration left before he would hit the open market and is expected to command roughly 7 million. As far as signing him to an extension his arbitration path has closely followed Heath Bell who received a 3 year, 27 million dollar contract last offseason. Admittedly I think Bell was an overpayment and Hanrahan won't quite get that but a 3 year, 24 million dollar deal is reasonable. Assuming this is what it takes to get him signed I'm not sure it increases his value a whole lot. It probably would but if the Pirates resign him he likely won't be traded until midseason and if he falters his value collapses and the Pirates are likely stuck with the albatross of a contract or forced to pay some of it and get no return.

To me the reward of signing a reliever like Hanrahan to increase his value is not worth the risk associated with it.

Would it really be that much of a risk though? We know what we get from him and he has shown the past 3-4 seasons or however long, that he isn't likely to suddenly collapse. Now, I'm not really sure the Pirates should be paying a reliever 27mil but if we weren't able to trade him, it wouldn't be the worst thing to happen.

Personally, I say take the "risk" because I think his value would go up, even if it was only slightly

[Tomahawk27]

Yeah they kind of are ... Doumit, Correia, Clement, Fryer, Wood, Boleska and Martis are recent Pirates they have picked up in the last year. Just off the top of my head of course.

You could add Sano too if you wanted to nitpick. That one was personal lol

[burgh_fan66]

Some news today. The Pirates showed interest in Choo who has been traded to the Reds. He didn't really seem to fit anyway.

Also some more Hanrahan rumors. The Pirates want something in addition to Capuano for him. I've seen some people wonder about Gordon but again I don't see the fascination with him. He was worse OFFENSIVELY last year than Barmes.

Also the Tigers will not trade Porcello for Hanrahan which ends my hope. They are willing to trade Boesch though but that makes absolutely zero sense for the Pirates.

[Tomahawk27]

The Dbacks traded Bauer as part of that deal. Pretty interesting I would say.

I know he and Cole (supposedly) don't like each other but I would have been drooling over adding him to the prospect list. Any idea what the talent they got for him would have equated in terms of our prospects?

[burgh_fan66]

The Dbacks traded Bauer as part of that deal. Pretty interesting I would say.

I know he and Cole (supposedly) don't like each other but I would have been drooling over adding him to the prospect list. Any idea what the talent they got for him would have equated in terms of our prospects?

That is a tough one. The main piece was Didi Gregoris who is a 23 year old major league ready shortstop. The Pirates don't have any of those. Essentially though if you are looking for something of roughly equal value Gregoris is the best I can tell a B- prospect which would put him in the Dilson Herrera range but the position he plays makes him slightly more valuable so maybe Josh Bell is a good value comparison. Tony Sipp looks like a competant left handed reliever so maybe Tony Watson or Justin Wilson. Lars Anderson was a once highly regarded 1st base prospect who has flopped. Honestly I would put him on par with Matt Hague but its possible the Diamondbacks see some value in him that could bump him to Matt Curry level.

So I'd say the Diamonbacks received a package of Herrera, Watson and Hague but being optimisitc about how you see those guys Bell, Wilson and Curry would probably be a good value match. Again that isn't a lot for Bauer but keep in mind Arizona doesn't do either of those trades. They are looking for immediate help at SS and the only player I mention that gives them that is Gregoris.

[Tomahawk27]

It was a tough question and that was about the best response I was hoping for. That's quite a bit to give up and if you think we would have had to give up one of Taillon or Heredia anyway, I think that kind of defeats the purpose.

Say he is a more polished version of Heredia, is it worth giving up all those extra guys to get him here a little faster? I think not

[burgh_fan66]

It was a tough question and that was about the best response I was hoping for. That's quite a bit to give up and if you think we would have had to give up one of Taillon or Heredia anyway, I think that kind of defeats the purpose.

Say he is a more polished version of Heredia, is it worth giving up all those extra guys to get him here a little faster? I think not

I don't think I did a good job explaining it. It is a rather low price the Diamonbacks got for Bauer, Shaw, Albers. Bauer is roughly equivalent to Taillion. Shaw is roughly equivalent to Hughes, Albers is roughly equivalent to Veras. For those 3 they received Gregoris who is roughly equivalent to Bell/Herrera, Sipp who is roughly equivalent to Watson and Aderson who is roughly equivalent to Hague.

[burgh_fan66]

So I guess to answer your question simply. The equivalent Pirates package to what the Diamondbacks recieved for trading Bauer (plus Shaw and Albers who are two decent RPs) is:

Dilson Herrera, Tony Watson, Matt Hague

or being optimistic on the Diamondbacks end

Josh Bell, Justin Wilson, Matt Curry

I would certainly give up the first one and would probably do the second as well.

[burgh_fan66]

Dodgers DFA'd Scott Van Slyke. The Pirates picking him would just feel right, wouldn't it?

[Tomahawk27]

It would feel a lot better if he could play like his dad

[LASportsFan1996]

Maybe the Pirates can claim Van Slyke, making it SVS + Capuano for Hanrahan essentially

[burgh_fan66]

Maybe the Pirates can claim Van Slyke, making it SVS + Capuano for Hanrahan essentially

Most Pirates fans want it to be a trade of Capuano + Gordon for Hanrahan and a prospect.

As for myself I don't particularly get the fascination with Gordon. He was as bad as Barmes at the plate last season, terrible in the field and is no more a leadoff hitter than Starling Marte who to put it kindly I am record on here saying I want to see no where near the top of the order.

[burgh_fan66]

This is how I see the current roster:

Marte, LF
Walker, 2B
McCutchen, CF
Jones, 1B
Alvarez, 3B
Martin, C
Snider, RF
Barmes, SS

McKenry, C
Sanchez, CI
--------, MI
Tabata, OF
Harrison, U

Burnett, SP
Rodriguez, SP
---------, SP
McDonald, SP
Locke, SP

Grilli, CL
------, SU
Morris, SU
Hughes, MR
Watson, MR
Mazzaro, LR
Leroux, LR

Obviously this is assuming Hanrahan is traded. So what NH has left to acquire is a middle infielder for the bench (Mercer, Holt and d'Arnaud are the interal choices) an additional starter (McPherson, Mazzaro and VandenHurk are the internal choices) and another bullpen arm (Stewart, Welker, VandenHurk, Beck, Wilson, Oliver are some internal choices).

[burgh_fan66]

This is actually now getting a little funny. The Twins signed Brandon Boggs.