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  1. #16
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    I actually think Bill Russell is seriously underrated and Oscar Robertson (not Robinson like the OP wrote) is fairly overrated. Why? Because Russell was the greatest defensive player of his era, he dominated Wilt on a regular basis en route to 11 championships and his teammates loved playing with him (hell, he coached the team his final year!).

    Oscar, on the other hand, was not particularly well liked by this teammates, and even though he put up crazy stats and played with great players (young Kareem in Milwaukee, Jerry Lucas and Jack Twyman in Cincinatti), the dude only won one ring. Why? I don't think he was the kind of guy who made his teammates better, but would rather throw you under the bus when things turned to ****.

    Another reason I wouldn't put him higher is similar to why I won't put Wilt higher despite freakish numbers. They were both insane athletes that were a good 5-10 years ahead of their time in terms of size and athleticism for their positions. Oscar was a lightning quick 6' 5" PG playing in an era of short, slow 5'10" white dudes playing the position. If Oscar had come 10 years later, his numbers would be nothing by comparison.

    Would Russell's numbers take a bit of a hit? Perhaps. But I think overall the results would be about the same and his defense and rebounding would still have been among the best of the 70s or early 80s.


  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by mightybosstone View Post
    I actually think Bill Russell is seriously underrated and Oscar Robertson (not Robinson like the OP wrote) is fairly overrated. Why? Because Russell was the greatest defensive player of his era, he dominated Wilt on a regular basis en route to 11 championships and his teammates loved playing with him (hell, he coached the team his final year!).

    Oscar, on the other hand, was not particularly well liked by this teammates, and even though he put up crazy stats and played with great players (young Kareem in Milwaukee, Jerry Lucas and Jack Twyman in Cincinatti), the dude only won one ring. Why? I don't think he was the kind of guy who made his teammates better, but would rather throw you under the bus when things turned to ****.

    Another reason I wouldn't put him higher is similar to why I won't put Wilt higher despite freakish numbers. They were both insane athletes that were a good 5-10 years ahead of their time in terms of size and athleticism for their positions. Oscar was a lightning quick 6' 5" PG playing in an era of short, slow 5'10" white dudes playing the position. If Oscar had come 10 years later, his numbers would be nothing by comparison.

    Would Russell's numbers take a bit of a hit? Perhaps. But I think overall the results would be about the same and his defense and rebounding would still have been among the best of the 70s or early 80s.
    I am not in the condition, nor mood, to have a discussion about the bolded, but I would love to have it with you at some point, I think you have a very good understanding of the game.

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    For sure he's overrated. You can argue Bill shouldn't even be in the top 10.
    And I agree but championships have him top 5 player ever smh I certaintly wouldn't rank him in my top 10

    He's probably the only player that I think is overrated because of rings his stats just aren't eye popping and especially in that era... Everyone else in the top 10 was pretty good on defense but offensively and play making wise everyone in the top 10> Russell
    Last edited by LoveMeOrHateMe; 10-29-2012 at 01:27 AM.

    Love him or hate him, call him overrated, a punk, chump, and whatever blasphemy you people speak, fact of the matter is there is no denying he's the best of his generation and will go down as a top 5 player ever...what he has done for the NBA is amazing he's the biggest name in basketball all around the world and his chase for number 6 continues! All that matters though to us Laker fans is #17! Lakersnation! #16to17

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by JNA17 View Post
    Big O is one of only players from the 60s that I think would still maintain their greatness even in today's NBA. Wilt is also one of them. These guys weren't stiffs at all.

    Guys like Bill Russell, Bob Cousy, etc. Not so much. Bill Russell for example would just end up being a good defending PF. Otherwise, that's pretty much it.

    So to answer your question, yes Big O is underrated especially when people think Bill Russell>Big O when IMO, Bill Russell shouldn't even be regarded as a top ten player of all time.
    I seriously disagree with this assessment. If you put Wilt in today's NBA, I think he'd be a stiff compared to today's athletes and their speed. He couldn't just physically dominant today's big men like he did in the 60s and 70s.

    And would Russell be an all-time great if you transported him to today's game? Probably not. I see him as a slightly less athletic Ben Wallace, but with a more offensive minded game and Steve Nash's will to win. He'd probably be a 15-10-2 guy, but a 15-10-2 guy you wouldn't want to **** with and you'd love to have on your team.

    I would make the argument that guys like Wilt and Oscar were so great historically BECAUSE they were able to dominate inferior athletes of their time. But if you transported them into another era, they wouldn't have nearly the same impact.

    Give me Russell or Jerry West any day over Wilt or Oscar.


  5. #20
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    All these underrated and overrated threads..... Who underrates him?

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by mightybosstone View Post
    I seriously disagree with this assessment. If you put Wilt in today's NBA, I think he'd be a stiff compared to today's athletes and their speed. He couldn't just physically dominant today's big men like he did in the 60s and 70s.

    And would Russell be an all-time great if you transported him to today's game? Probably not. I see him as a slightly less athletic Ben Wallace, but with a more offensive minded game and Steve Nash's will to win. He'd probably be a 15-10-2 guy, but a 15-10-2 guy you wouldn't want to **** with and you'd love to have on your team.

    I would make the argument that guys like Wilt and Oscar were so great historically BECAUSE they were able to dominate inferior athletes of their time. But if you transported them into another era, they wouldn't have nearly the same impact.

    Give me Russell or Jerry West any day over Wilt or Oscar.
    I respectfully disagree.

    Wilt benched pressed over 500 pounds during his time. Can you imagine that kind of strength in today's NBA where not many if ANY are that strong? Wilt was also a great track and field runner and was incredibly athletic given his size. It wasn't just his height that put him over the top. And that's not even counting what kind of training methods he would do in today's world.

    Oscar Robinson was the most physical guard of his time and had the quickness and speed to boot. Just like Wilt at his position, Big O dominated with his sheer athleticism. That's not even covering the skills he had at his position to boot. Big O would EASILY be able to hold his own in today's NBA.

    Jerry West I think as well would be really good for today's NBA but not because of his physical, but because of his dominate skill set. He was great because of him being probably the greatest pull up jump shooter ever. His skill set would still make him great today.

    As for Russell, I like the comparison for a Ben Wallace lite. Although Ben Wallace also played center in today's NBA and was EXTREMELY physical and athletic. Bill Russell was 6-9 and 215 pounds. Ben Wallace was 6-9 and 245 pounds. Huge difference in weight and mass. While IQ wise, Bill would be great still, but I really doubt he would be able to hold his own simply due to how weak he would be trying to guard against bigger guys.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by mightybosstone View Post
    I seriously disagree with this assessment. If you put Wilt in today's NBA, I think he'd be a stiff compared to today's athletes and their speed. He couldn't just physically dominant today's big men like he did in the 60s and 70s.

    And would Russell be an all-time great if you transported him to today's game? Probably not. I see him as a slightly less athletic Ben Wallace, but with a more offensive minded game and Steve Nash's will to win. He'd probably be a 15-10-2 guy, but a 15-10-2 guy you wouldn't want to **** with and you'd love to have on your team.

    I would make the argument that guys like Wilt and Oscar were so great historically BECAUSE they were able to dominate inferior athletes of their time. But if you transported them into another era, they wouldn't have nearly the same impact.

    Give me Russell or Jerry West any day over Wilt or Oscar.
    You can't just take a player from the past and put him in today's game without context. If that player from the past was able to train with today's equipment, supplements, trainers, doctors, and all the other advancements of today they would likely be as strong and fast as today's players.

    If Kobe played in the 60's he would be retired by now. He said he was nearly bone on bone two years ago. Because of medical advancements he is still productive after all these years. I wish we could see what Wilt could do with today's advancements.

    Same if we took a player from today and put him in the past. He would be working with free weights and without the proper nutrition regiment that has been discovered over time. Lebron and Dwight would not be the physical freaks that they are most likely.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by JNA17 View Post
    I respectfully disagree.

    Wilt benched pressed over 500 pounds during his time. Can you imagine that kind of strength in today's NBA where not many if ANY are that strong? Wilt was also a great track and field runner and was incredibly athletic given his size. It wasn't just his height that put him over the top. And that's not even counting what kind of training methods he would do in today's world.

    Oscar Robinson was the most physical guard of his time and had the quickness and speed to boot. Just like Wilt at his position, Big O dominated with his sheer athleticism. That's not even covering the skills he had at his position to boot. Big O would EASILY be able to hold his own in today's NBA.

    Jerry West I think as well would be really good for today's NBA but not because of his physical, but because of his dominate skill set. He was great because of him being probably the greatest pull up jump shooter ever. His skill set would still make him great today.

    As for Russell, I like the comparison for a Ben Wallace lite. Although Ben Wallace also played center in today's NBA and was EXTREMELY physical and athletic. Bill Russell was 6-9 and 215 pounds. Ben Wallace was 6-9 and 245 pounds. Huge difference in weight and mass. While IQ wise, Bill would be great still, but I really doubt he would be able to hold his own simply due to how weak he would be trying to guard against bigger guys.
    We have to remember that the older players were measured without shoes. Russell today would be listed 6'11. His weight was what he was out of college. I'm sure he added more mass as he got older

  9. #24
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    My Ignore list: Naps, bucketss, iknowhoops....

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  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by jerellh528 View Post
    Oh god that thread. Good thing this site is small compared to others and this is just a minority.

  11. #26
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    I agree.

    He is one of the greatest offensive players in the history of the league imo and he was also a great defender.

    He was incredibly skilled.
    Offensively he had an elite jumper and he was great at slashing and taking players off the dribble.
    He was also an excellent floor leader and passer/creator.

    He was a thick/muscled 6,5 and extremely athletic.

    From the 60's he is probably the #1 player in terms of ability to transition to this new era.
    Not only does he have the size and athleticism but he also has the skillset and mindset.

    A guy like Wilt had the athleticism but not the skill or proper mindset.
    Oscar had both.

    Even adjusting for pace I think he'd be putting up something like 25 / 5 / 7-8apg on 58+%TS in this new era.
    I think that is a low estimate also.

    Kind of like a Mini-Lebron but in more of a PG role (less ppg/more apg).
    Last edited by Andrew32; 10-29-2012 at 02:14 AM.

  12. #27
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    i think the main reason he doesnt get recognition is because he only has 1 ring. it would be like durant winning only 1 ring. he would be rmembered but not as much as kobe or lebron (if he wins more). and for you fool saying bill s overrated you dont know basketball. and im not going to waste my energy explaining his greatness to you. i honestly feel bad for you as a basketball fan if you think bill is overrated
    I think Lebron is just the best all-around player we have in the game today.
    -Magic Johnson

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by b@llhog24 View Post
    I love the Big O but he's overrated. He literally wouldn't average those numbers in todays Nba.
    Wilt wouldn't either but he continues to be overrated

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoveMeOrHateMe View Post
    So you must think bill Russell is overrated as well right?
    Horribly.


    Quote Originally Posted by rhymeratic View Post
    Shoot I'd even put up Glen Rice and Mitch Richmond in their prime at or slightly better than James. Even Glenn Robinson who is a forgotten beast.


    Quote Originally Posted by LoveMeOrHateMe View Post
    Kobe GOAT LOL
    ^Finally got one.

  15. #30
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    The media is the only reason. The media was not as big then as it is now. Also how many people here are old enough to say who is overrated or underrated when most here didn't live back then to judge?

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