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  1. #271
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    No one is arguing that Pagan has been better than Reyes or Beltran in their careers, I'm just saying that he is a quality player and his run with the Giants this year has shown everyone that.

    The Mets sold low and got a pile of **** in return with no future upside.

    Now the Giants get a draft pick for letting Pagan go as he seeks a multi-year contract.

  2. #272
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna28 View Post
    No one is arguing that Pagan is better than Reyes, I'm just saying that he is a quality player and his run with the Giants this year has shown everyone that. The Mets sold low and got a pile of **** in return with no future upside.
    Exactly.

  3. #273
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    Quote Originally Posted by clayamtion View Post
    Exactly, Pagan is not the caliber of player that Reyes or Beltran is.
    So to expect the return that Beltran got or Reyes got is ill-advised.
    Except for the fact that Pagan has exceeded or exacted the returns of Beltran and Reyes the last 3 years cumulatively (regardless of injury because being on the field is important too)
    Last edited by metswon69; 11-01-2012 at 09:45 PM.

  4. #274
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    Hmmm the Giants decided not to give Pagan a qualifying offer. Unless they re-sign him that was the wrong decision imo.

  5. #275
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    http://www.csnbayarea.com/baseball-s...medium=twitter
    SAN FRANCISCO – The Giants do not plan to make a qualifying offer to any of their free agents by the 2 p.m. deadline on Friday, which means they would not receive draft pick compensation in the event Angel Pagan or Jeremy Affeldt signs with another club.

  6. #276
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    What I like about this new CBA is that 2nd round picks will be much more valuable compared to the past with the lack of 2nd round picks.

  7. #277
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna28 View Post
    No one is arguing that Pagan has been better than Reyes or Beltran in their careers, I'm just saying that he is a quality player and his run with the Giants this year has shown everyone that.

    The Mets sold low and got a pile of **** in return with no future upside.

    Now the Giants get a draft pick for letting Pagan go as he seeks a multi-year contract.
    They don't get a pick, because he's not worth 12 million.


    "You don't know how to drink. Your whole generation, you drink for the wrong reasons. My generation, we drink because it's good, because it feels better than unbuttoning your collar, because we deserve it. We drink because it's what men do."

  8. #278
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna28 View Post
    No one is arguing that Pagan has been better than Reyes or Beltran in their careers, I'm just saying that he is a quality player and his run with the Giants this year has shown everyone that.

    The Mets sold low and got a pile of **** in return with no future upside.

    Now the Giants get a draft pick for letting Pagan go as he seeks a multi-year contract.
    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    Except for the fact that Pagan has exceeded or exacted the returns of Beltran and Reyes the last 3 years cumulatively (regardless of injury because being on the field is important too)
    He is.


    "You don't know how to drink. Your whole generation, you drink for the wrong reasons. My generation, we drink because it's good, because it feels better than unbuttoning your collar, because we deserve it. We drink because it's what men do."

  9. #279
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    Quote Originally Posted by clayamtion View Post
    He is.
    Over the last 3 years he has been.

    Am i stupid enough to say Pagan is on the same stratosphere of ability as those guys are?

    Come on don't patronize me, i really don't appreciate it.

    I know the difference in the players Reyes and Beltran are when completely healthy and in their prime over a guy like Pagan (but the fact is the former 2 have not been completely healthy the last 4-5 years and injuries/age in the case of Beltran have cut into some of that ability)

    Even Reyes wasn't as effective as he had been in previous years this past season.

    Saying that, you don't have to be of their talents to make a significant impact on the field like Pagan has.

    I gave you a sample size in time where their numbers were similar, or in this case Pagan had the better numbers and more value and although they might not be comparative in a career sense (which they obviously are not) Pagan has been on par with those guys over the last 3 seasons.

    To me that's a pretty decent sample size.
    Last edited by metswon69; 11-02-2012 at 01:49 PM.

  10. #280
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    Josh Reddick, Ian Desmond, David Murphy, AJ Ellis, Denard Span, Nick Swisher, and Austin Jackson also had higher fWAR values than Beltran this year.

    Do i think any of those guys are the caliber of player Beltran is?

    Last edited by metswon69; 11-02-2012 at 01:44 PM.

  11. #281
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    Quote Originally Posted by clayamtion View Post
    They don't get a pick, because he's not worth 12 million.
    Maybe, maybe not but he's certainly worth 4-5 years for close to $10M. If he doesn't re-sign with the Giants, they made a mistake by not offering the qualifying offer.

  12. #282
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    Over the last 3 years he has been.

    Am i stupid enough to say Pagan is on the same stratosphere of ability as those guys are?

    Come on don't patronize me, i really don't appreciate it.

    I know the difference in the players Reyes and Beltran are when completely healthy and in their prime over a guy like Pagan (but the fact is the former 2 have not been completely healthy the last 4-5 years and injuries/age in the case of Beltran have cut into some of that ability)

    Even Reyes wasn't as effective as he had been in previous years this past season.

    Saying that, you don't have to be of their talents to make a significant impact on the field like Pagan has.

    I gave you a sample size in time where their numbers were similar, or in this case Pagan had the better numbers and more value and although they might not be comparative in a career sense (which they obviously are not) Pagan has been on par with those guys over the last 3 seasons.

    To me that's a pretty decent sample size.
    Patronizing you? The point of your argument was that all the Mets only received Wheeler and Plawecki for Beltran, Reyes and Pagan.

    To me, Pagan wasn't worth anything more than a captain Kirk or a Matt den Dekker.

    Pagan isn't being offered a contract that would warrant compensation, even after the season his career year that he had. And it isn't because the Giants are cheap, but because he's not worth it.

    Pagan is a nice complementary player, nothing more.


    "You don't know how to drink. Your whole generation, you drink for the wrong reasons. My generation, we drink because it's good, because it feels better than unbuttoning your collar, because we deserve it. We drink because it's what men do."

  13. #283
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna28 View Post
    Maybe, maybe not but he's certainly worth 4-5 years for close to $10M. If he doesn't re-sign with the Giants, they made a mistake by not offering the qualifying offer.
    Of 12 million? Do you honestly think Pagan is worth 11-12 million for a season?


    "You don't know how to drink. Your whole generation, you drink for the wrong reasons. My generation, we drink because it's good, because it feels better than unbuttoning your collar, because we deserve it. We drink because it's what men do."

  14. #284
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    Quote Originally Posted by clayamtion View Post
    Patronizing you? The point of your argument was that all the Mets only received Wheeler and Plawecki for Beltran, Reyes and Pagan.

    To me, Pagan wasn't worth anything more than a captain Kirk or a Matt den Dekker.

    Pagan isn't being offered a contract that would warrant compensation, even after the season his career year that he had. And it isn't because the Giants are cheap, but because he's not worth it.

    Pagan is a nice complementary player, nothing more.
    http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/sho...&postcount=278

    That's patronizing.

    I know Pagan isn't the caliber of player Reyes or Beltran is.

    That was never my argument about them being of equal ability.

    Neither was i making the argument for Pagan's compensation being a blue chip prospect.

    My two arguments were that they sold low on Pagan (because they could have gotten more for him than Torres/Ramirez if they had held on to him) or like i said in a previous post maybe they do what most big market teams are supposed to do and keep their productive players.

    Or the fact that they had no speed in their lineup and nobody who could bat leadoff everyday after dealing Reyes, they might have want to kept Pagan just to fix a practical lineup issue going into this season.
    Last edited by metswon69; 11-02-2012 at 02:49 PM.

  15. #285
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    Quote Originally Posted by clayamtion View Post
    Of 12 million? Do you honestly think Pagan is worth 11-12 million for a season?
    For one season? Yes.

    He would have been foolish to accept that though because he's going to get a nice multi-year contract from a team this winter after the year he had. By accepting the $12M now, if he has a down-season, he just screwed himself out of a big multi-year contract, so that is why I am confused the Giants did not offer it.

    They are probably re-signing him that's why.

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