Why the NY Mets traded Angel Pagan

[SILVER SEAVER]

It's not getting heated.

Just a precaution.

[metswon69]

Both, Beltran said he was open to returning to NY. We had no mula to do so.

This.

All of this ******** comes from atrocious ownership especially and bad general managing to a certain extent.

They could have built a winner if they had kept Pagan, Beltran, and Reyes with the SP we had this year.

Certainly would have been much easier than building one now after the talent purge.

[SILVER SEAVER]

We all love Wheeler but how long is it going to take for us to win with him?

If this team has no intentions of adding players of significant help it could take 5-7 years before we win anything

I think we at least need to get a whiff of Wheeler before we appoint him the second coming. Until I see a guy get it done at this level I am just in the wait and see mode. I know the Giants were rich in starting pitching but if they really thought he would be an ace type pitcher do you really think they would have traded him for a rental? We won't trade him and we haven't seen him do crap against major league talent but the Giants were willing to part with him?

[SILVER SEAVER]

This.

All of this ******** comes from atrocious ownership especially and bad general managing to a certain extent.

They could have built a winner if they had kept Pagan, Beltran, and Reyes with the SP we had this year.

Certainly would have been much easier than building one now after the talent purge.

The funny thing is we have nobody that we can honestly bring up to this level and think this guy has a chance. We're thin with outfielders and catching and Valdespin is likely to take over for Murph when he gets moved and he's not all that. So they dismantled the team and truly have nothing to move forward with excpet Harvey and the possibility of Wheeler. Havens was supposed to be our second baseman of the future and he's hurt all the time, Kirk can't remain healthy and you just gotta hope Flores grows into the hitter everyone thinks he can be. This is going to be a long road unless we get lucky because the farm has a ways to go.

[metswon69]

I think we at least need to get a whiff of Wheeler before we appoint him the second coming. Until I see a guy get it done at this level I am just in the wait and see mode. I know the Giants were rich in starting pitching but if they really thought he would be an ace type pitcher do you really think they would have traded him for a rental? We won't trade him and we haven't seen him do crap against major league talent but the Giants were willing to part with him?

Well to be fair to Wheeler, he has had much better control since coming from the Giants.

I think the Giants saw great potential in him, thats they selected him with the 6th overall pick but he was having walk issues in their minor league system.

He has made a few adjustments since coming here that has really helped him harness his great stuff.

He needed time to develop and the Mets have certainly given him that time. I don't have many qualms about him or Harvey.

I think the Mets have a great 1-2 combination for many years to come.

[fanofclendennon]

Would he have performed the same way this year in Citi?

Why not? He played well in Citi 2009-10.

Here's the problem:

The Mets werent looking at it as a question of who is better, Pagan or Torres. Rather it was "Who would we rather have: Pagan, the better player at $4.7 million or Torres, the weaker player, at $2.7?

See, the Mets have nothing against winning. Hell, I'm sure they'd love to win. But don't think for a second it's the priority.

[Claymation]

Why not? He played well in Citi 2009-10.

Here's the problem:

The Mets werent looking at it as a question of who is better, Pagan or Torres. Rather it was "Who would we rather have: Pagan, the better player at $4.7 million or Torres, the weaker player, at $2.7?

See, the Mets have nothing against winning. Hell, I'm sure they'd love to win. But don't think for a second it's the priority.

The Mets did not just receive Torres for Pagan, they also received Rameriz in the deal that equalled the same amount as Pagan and a pitcher who made the league minimum.

[fanofclendennon]

The Mets did not just receive Torres for Pagan, they also received Rameriz in the deal that equalled the same amount as Pagan and a pitcher who made the league minimum.

Right.

In other words, two for the price of one. In the retail world that's known as discount shopping.

The problem is you get what you pay for.

[Marty Mcfly]

beltran, pagan & reyes >>>>>>>>> duda, torres & tejada

game set and match.

[Marty Mcfly]

The Mets did not just receive Torres for Pagan, they also received Rameriz in the deal that equalled the same amount as Pagan and a pitcher who made the league minimum.

Why do you seem to be more in favor of saving the Coupons money than winning baseball games?

[Marty Mcfly]

Chicago is also a big market and they have a payroll under 100 million and have sucked for over 100 years.

Should the new commissioner get rid of the Ricketts family?

The Cubs are actually rebuilding, the Mets are not, and the Cubs will have money to spend, as will the Red Sox who are also CLEARLY rebuilding, the comparisons do not work.

[Marty Mcfly]

Correct. And therein lies the problem. We'd rather pay less to someone less who can't do the job than more to someone more who can't.

Amazingly many Mets fans are on board with this, they seem to think the the objective is to lose cheaply.

[Marty Mcfly]

Who cares? If they can't handle a $140MM payroll by 2015, they need to GTFO out of NY

And we know they'll have a payroll closer to half of that in 2015. They can't afford to own the team, yet Bud Selig is allowing them to do so at the detriment to the Mets to NY and to baseball as a whole.

That is corruption.

[fanofclendennon]

Amazingly many Mets fans are on board with this, they seem to think the the objective is to lose cheaply.

Well, their argument is that after the Mets trim the fat, they'll resume spending again. They think if the Mets lose cheaply today, they'll win more expensively "tomorrow."

And after making that argument myself, I now have come to the conclusion that there is no reason to believe "tomorrow" will ever come.

[Marty Mcfly]

Well, their argument is that after the Mets trim the fat, they'll resume spending again. They think if the Mets lose cheaply today, they'll win more expensively "tomorrow."

And after making that argument myself, I now have come to the conclusion that there is no reason to believe "tomorrow" will ever come.

I can see the argument, but it has no basis in reality, it's a nice theory, but that's all it is. All losing as cheaply as possible is doing is damaging revenue making increased spending less likely in the future.

Without new ownership, or a return to being a big-market club there is no real reason to believe tomorrow will ever come, every single team out there will have a Wheeler and Harvey or a Flores or something along the same lines, having 2-3 top prospects and a few other pieces on the farm doesn't mean anything on it.

People got fooled by SA and they mistook a drastic decrease in spending for a rebuild, now people are seeing things for what they are, a team limping along from year to year fighting fires, making poor decisions and making excuses while the team wins 70+ games again.

The 'progress' being made is hardly worth talking about, and it's being offset by the losses of Beltran, Reyes, Pagan et al and soon to be RA Dickey, the team is getting cheaper and cheaper but no better.

Now we're apparently supposed to stand and applaud Sandy Alderson for running a cheaper loser...


Well Fred and Sandy, you can shove your placeholder Mets right up your *******s.