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  1. #286
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/sho...&postcount=278

    That's patronizing.

    I know Pagan isn't the caliber of player Reyes or Beltran is.

    That was never my argument about them being of equal ability.

    Neither was i making the argument for Pagan's compensation being a blue chip prospect.

    My two arguments were that they sold low on Pagan (because they could have gotten more for him than Torres/Ramirez if they had held on to him) or like i said in a previous post maybe they do what most big market teams are supposed to do and keep their productive players.

    Or the fact that they had no speed in their lineup and nobody who could bat leadoff everyday after dealing Reyes, they might have want to kept Pagan just to fix a practical lineup issue going into this season.
    Like who?
    This is a guy who was coming off a campaign of having an ops of .694.
    What kind of talent are we going to get for him?

    The Mets were trying to fill 2 needs with the Pagan trade. It didn't workout like they had hoped.


    ďNinety percent Iíll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent Iíll probably waste.Ē
    - Tug McGraw, on his plans for his $75,000 salary

  2. #287
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna28 View Post
    For one season? Yes.

    He would have been foolish to accept that though because he's going to get a nice multi-year contract from a team this winter after the year he had. By accepting the $12M now, if he has a down-season, he just screwed himself out of a big multi-year contract, so that is why I am confused the Giants did not offer it.

    They are probably re-signing him that's why.
    What's a big multi year contract?


    ďNinety percent Iíll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent Iíll probably waste.Ē
    - Tug McGraw, on his plans for his $75,000 salary

  3. #288
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    Quote Originally Posted by clayamtion View Post
    Like who?
    This is a guy who was coming off a campaign of having an ops of .694.
    What kind of talent are we going to get for him?

    The Mets were trying to fill 2 needs with the Pagan trade. It didn't workout like they had hoped.
    If he had that 2012 campaign for the Mets instead of the Giants, they couldn't get more for him than Torres and Ramirez?

    Sorry not buying it.
    Last edited by metswon69; 11-02-2012 at 03:32 PM.

  4. #289
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    If he had that 2012 campaign for the Mets instead of the Giants, they couldn't get more for him than Torres and Ramirez?

    Sorry not buying it.
    He is a free agent now.


    ďNinety percent Iíll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent Iíll probably waste.Ē
    - Tug McGraw, on his plans for his $75,000 salary

  5. #290
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    Quote Originally Posted by clayamtion View Post
    Like who?
    This is a guy who was coming off a campaign of having an ops of .694.
    What kind of talent are we going to get for him?

    The Mets were trying to fill 2 needs with the Pagan trade. It didn't workout like they had hoped.
    You don't trade a guy when his value is at his lowest. If they wanted to trade him, they should have done it after 2010.

  6. #291
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    Quote Originally Posted by clayamtion View Post
    He is a free agent now.
    I know that, i am talking midseason of 2012 if they had intentions on trading him or like i said before how about keeping him?

    Btw, OPS is the rule of thumb to determine the value of a player?

    How about the fact that Pagan had an over 5 fWAR in 2010 or almost a 5 fWAR this year?

    I know some of those variables are subjective but you don't need to go much farther than obviously Sandy Alderson to know teams use those type of evaluation methods in determining the value of players.

  7. #292
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    Quote Originally Posted by clayamtion View Post
    What's a big multi year contract?
    He can get a 4-5 year deal worth $40-50M this off-season. Say he accepted the qualifying offer and had an injury-riddled campaign or played poorly, the best he'd get is a 2 year $8-10M deal.

    That is why it would be unwise for Pagan to accept the offer instead of going after his first multi-year contract.

  8. #293
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    I know that, i am talking midseason of 2012 if they had intentions on trading him or like i said before how about keeping him?

    Btw, OPS is the rule of thumb to determine the value of a player?

    How about the fact that Pagan had an over 5 fWAR in 2010 or almost a 5 fWAR this year?

    I know some of those variables are subjective but you don't need to go much farther than obviously Sandy Alderson to know teams use those type of evaluation methods in determining the value of players.
    Clay doesn't believe in defense or base-stealing success.

  9. #294
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna28 View Post
    He can get a 4-5 year deal worth $40-50M this off-season. Say he accepted the qualifying offer and had an injury-riddled campaign or played poorly, the best he'd get is a 2 year $8-10M deal.

    That is why it would be unwise for Pagan to accept the offer instead of going after his first multi-year contract.
    I would be shocked if anyone offered a 4-5 year deal worth 40 to 50 million.
    That's really high.


    ďNinety percent Iíll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent Iíll probably waste.Ē
    - Tug McGraw, on his plans for his $75,000 salary

  10. #295
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna28 View Post
    You don't trade a guy when his value is at his lowest. If they wanted to trade him, they should have done it after 2010.
    Did you know that he would struggle in 2011?


    ďNinety percent Iíll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent Iíll probably waste.Ē
    - Tug McGraw, on his plans for his $75,000 salary

  11. #296
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    Quote Originally Posted by clayamtion View Post
    Did you know that he would struggle in 2011?
    That's irrelevant. I remember Sick and a few other saying that Pagan tailed off in the 2nd half of 2010 and advocated selling high. Looking back that would have been the right decision.

    Because Pagan struggled in 2011(mostly due to injuries and bad-luck) it made little sense to deal him away at lowest value. The Giants made a brilliant decision by dealing nothing of value to get him and they are rewarded with their 2nd WS in 3 years. That is how you GM a baseball team.

  12. #297
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    Quote Originally Posted by clayamtion View Post
    I would be shocked if anyone offered a 4-5 year deal worth 40 to 50 million.
    That's really high.
    Not really. Players are going to get more than you think this off-season with the new broadcasting deals made. Bourn is likely going to be close to a $100M player, and the teams that miss out on him will go after the next tier, Pagan, Upton, etc.

  13. #298
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    For what the Mets got for Pagan, I thought it was a good trade, considering how badly he played in 2011. I thought Ramirez would be a very good reliever, but it obviously didn't work out.

    That's baseball for ya'.

  14. #299
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    I see Pagan getting around a 2/3 year, 7 million dollar contract. We still don't know if he could sustain success over a couple of years or if he's just a 1 year on, 1 year off kind of guy.

  15. #300
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    Alderson has been a massive fail so far.

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