Why the NY Mets traded Angel Pagan

[MetsFanatic19]

A pathetic haul. We could also have got something for Wagner, but the Creeps took the $3M instead.

This is not a rebuilding team it is a bs'ing team.

And K Rod....

**** this man. **** this.

[Marty Mcfly]

And K Rod....

**** this man. **** this.

Yep forgot about that. Rebuild my ***.

[Marty Mcfly]

The Pedro signing was quite awhile ago. A lot of moves made around that time worked out pretty well.

But anyway I am not disputing the Mets have made moves that haven't worked out...I'm just disputing your reasoning on why the moves didn't pan out. IMO as I said a bit earlier...many of the moves were predictably bad...they were poor moves, not really ones with shocking outcomes that could be attributed to "bad luck" or a "toxic" environment.

And in the case of Pedro, the environment was pretty good back then...and before getting hurt he had one of his best years in awhile. But then he got hurt...which was far from unpredictable. There was a reason nobody really pursued him....the move was a huge risk. The Mets at that time could afford to take risks (something they probably won't be able to do again for awhile)...but its not like him not lasting should have come as a big surprise.

At least in context of the conversation that was going on about Pagan (who again I think more belongs in a positive category than a negative given what he did prior to joining the Mets) I think there is a difference b/w guys that were just bad moves and ones that unpredictably underperformed. Like to me Frank Francisco stinking and not being worth the money was predictable...it was a bad move. Bay being as bad as he was, was a pretty unpredictable outcome. I don't think the Mets have had THAT many of the latter.

And we have had a number of players do better than expected over the years...that just doesn't get much attention b/c the team is usually too flawed for it to matter.

If you look at Mets history, so many have failed and continue to fail, at the same time the Mets are a disaster area for years and years on end, there's no link?

The Mets have been a dysfunctional org. for a long time now. I think there's a link, it does not fully answer as to why so many FA's flop here, but IMO it is a contributory factor.

[MetsFanatic19]

Yep forgot about that. Rebuild my ***.

Well, we did save a lot of money by ditching him, but Daniel Ray Herrera in return? Really?

[Marty Mcfly]

Well, we did save a lot of money by ditching him, but Daniel Ray Herrera in return? Really?

A token gesture.

[SILVER SEAVER]

He had one fluke season, that's all there is to it, and SA got fooled by it.

Torres was the throw in player. Pretty much it was Pagan for Ramirez and the Mets had to take Torres and his cadaver calf. If he would have played like he did in 2010 then Sandy looks like a real genius but seeing as Ramirez flopped too it was a bust.

[Claymation]

Well, we did save a lot of money by ditching him, but Daniel Ray Herrera in return? Really?

Adrian Rosario was also in the trade and posted a 0.94 era with a WHIP 0.733 in St. Lucie.

[MetsFanatic19]

Adrian Rosario was also in the trade and posted a 0.94 era with a WHIP 0.733 in St. Lucie.

Really? I thought it was just Herrera. Well, that eases the pain a bit.

[YoungStuna]

Adrian Rosario was also in the trade and posted a 0.94 era with a WHIP 0.733 in St. Lucie.

And when he went up to AA he got smashed. He's a middle reliever at best.

[Claymation]

And when he went up to AA he got smashed. He's a middle reliever at best.

You should know better than speak in absolutes.

He may not be anything more than just that, but the K-Rod trade was a salary dump and not wanting that option kicking in. The fact they got any value is beyond me.

[Claymation]

Losing Beltran, Reyes, and Pagan hurt this team regardless of the sour grapes some people have after the fact.

Wheeler is great but we should have gotten more than him and Plawecki for those 3 guys.

Edit: I know we got Ramirez and Torres for Pagan but considering how underwhelming both guys were and the fact that they won't be back (hopefully in Torre's case) we got the **** end of the stick in overall value for all 3 guys.

Pagan is not in the same caliber of player as Beltran and Reyes.

[YoungStuna]

You should know better than speak in absolutes.

He may not be anything more than just that, but the K-Rod trade was a salary dump and not wanting that option kicking in. The fact they got any value is beyond me.

He doesn't qualify as value, he has major control issues and is 23 years old now. He walked 40 in 58 innings. I don't remember if it was Keith Law or Kevin Goldstein, but even when he was doing well they thought he was a middle reliever at best. I don't see how his ceiling is any higher than that.

[YoungStuna]

Pagan is not in the same caliber of player as Beltran and Reyes.

No but he's close and this year he was better.

2012 Pagan: 113 wRC+, 4.8 WAR
2012 Reyes: 109 wRC+, 4.5 WAR
2012 Beltran 125 wRC+, 3.6 WAR

[Claymation]

He doesn't qualify as value, he has major control issues and is 23 years old now. He walked 40 in 58 innings. I don't remember if it was Keith Law or Kevin Goldstein, but even when he was doing well they thought he was a middle reliever at best. I don't see how his ceiling is any higher than that.

He has averaged 4.3 walks per 9, it's not good but a different picture than the one you are painting.

From what I read he throws 92-93 with a sharp sider in the 80's.

That’s 21 strikeouts against four walks in 16 innings for Rosario who I was told recently I’m told by a Mets official is throwing a “plus fastball, in the low to mid-90s,” “a hard slider” and a “nice changeup that bottoms out of the zone.”

From Mr. Hyde.

[metswon69]

Pagan is not in the same caliber of player as Beltran and Reyes.

An over 5 fWAR in 2010 and nearly a 5 fWAR in 2012 shows he a significantly better player than the platooning Andres Torres at this point.