Why the NY Mets traded Angel Pagan

[Claymation]

Pretty much every move Alderson has made so far has been a complete bust.

Letting Capuano and Pagan go was just awful.

He got nothing in return for Krod and Beltran would have helped us tremendously.

Having Dickey, Capuano, Santana, Niese, Gee, Harvey, and Young with Pagan, Krod, and Beltran could very well have made us a legit playoff contender.

No it wouldn't have, we would pick lower in the draft.

[Claymation]

You asked me Sandy's failings. I told you what they were.

Fair enough, not sure these are failings but then again this is your opinion and some I don't agree with.

Carrasco and Paulino were his big winter meeting signings and both ****ing sucked balls and are long gone.

Carrasco signed for 1.2 per year for 2 years. I would hardly call that a big signing. Paulino signed a 1 year deal for 1.35 million. Definitely not a type A free agent signing.

Francisco at 2 years 12 million looks TERRIBLE right now. $6.5MM could have gotten us an outfielder this off-season via FA market.

Who should they have gotten? and He can easily bounce back next year.

They were never seriously looking to re-sign Reyes and he left. That is a fail.

I disagree with the 1st part, but in the end he left and the Mets were compensated with two picks. It happens quite a bit in MLB. This wasn't a 3 million dollar investment, it was a 106 million dollar investment. The owners don't have that type of money anymore. They made the most of a bad situation.

K-Rod was a salary dump, but I thought the idea was to re-invest that money in the team? The players we got for him are useless and the money went unspent.

I don't know if you realize this but the owners can't afford that type of salary anymore for a reliever. It was as you said a salary dump. But they did pick up this little nugget, Adrian Rosario.

That is 7 players that were failures in the way they performed or the way they were handled.[/QUOTE]
I'll give you Francisco. But the rest are just reaches or out of Alderson's control.
Sorry Rabbit, Trix are for kids.

[fanofclendennon]

Having Dickey, Capuano, Santana, Niese, Gee, Harvey, and Young with Pagan, Krod, and Beltran could very well have made us a legit playoff contender.

No it wouldn't have, we would pick lower in the draft.

Yeah, it would have. With those players, our only glaring weakness would have been catcher. We would have been able to compete.

That's more important that wasting a season for the draft choices which are a crap shoot at best. Also, lower draft picks still doesn't preclude you from drafting well.

[Claymation]

Yeah, it would have. With those players, our only glaring weakness would have been catcher. We would have been able to compete.

That's more important that wasting a season for the draft choices which are a crap shoot at best. Also, lower draft picks still doesn't preclude you from drafting well.

We had these players in the past and we sucked.
Why would this past year be any different.

[Rio40]

Fair enough, not sure these are failings but then again this is your opinion and some I don't agree with.

Carrasco signed for 1.2 per year for 2 years. I would hardly call that a big signing. Paulino signed a 1 year deal for 1.35 million. Definitely not a type A free agent signing.

Who should they have gotten? and He can easily bounce back next year.
I disagree with the 1st part, but in the end he left and the Mets were compensated with two picks. It happens quite a bit in MLB. This wasn't a 3 million dollar investment, it was a 106 million dollar investment. The owners don't have that type of money anymore. They made the most of a bad situation.

I don't know if you realize this but the owners can't afford that type of salary anymore for a reliever. It was as you said a salary dump. But they did pick up this little nugget, Adrian Rosario.

That is 7 players that were failures in the way they performed or the way they were handled.

Yes we were compensated but not with a first round pick. The Mets would have been much better off trading him. They would have gotten pieces much more valuable then what they had available in the draft.

[YoungStuna28]

He's better than Thole.

I agree. Not much of an accomplishment though.

[fanofclendennon]

We had these players in the past and we sucked.
Why would this past year be any different.

Clay, you just committed what's known as a logical fallacy.

We sucked not because of Reyes or Pagan or Beltran or K-Rod. We sucked because of the crap that was around them.

So what did Sandy do? He improved the crap around them while he replaced Reyes, Pagan, Beltran, and K-Rod with affordable place holders.

[YoungStuna28]

Yeah we would have been set with a line-up of:

SS-Reyes
CF-Pagan
3B-Wright
RF-Beltran
1B-Davis
LF-Hairston
2B-Tejada
C-Thole/Shoppach

That line-up with this pitching staff of Dickey, Niese, Santana, Harvey and Gee would have been tremendous.

Our problem in 2011 is that our starting pitching sucked balls, but we were able to score runs. This year it was the opposite.

[YoungStuna28]

Fair enough, not sure these are failings but then again this is your opinion and some I don't agree with.

Carrasco signed for 1.2 per year for 2 years. I would hardly call that a big signing. Paulino signed a 1 year deal for 1.35 million. Definitely not a type A free agent signing.

Who should they have gotten? and He can easily bounce back next year.

I disagree with the 1st part, but in the end he left and the Mets were compensated with two picks. It happens quite a bit in MLB. This wasn't a 3 million dollar investment, it was a 106 million dollar investment. The owners don't have that type of money anymore. They made the most of a bad situation.

I don't know if you realize this but the owners can't afford that type of salary anymore for a reliever. It was as you said a salary dump. But they did pick up this little nugget, Adrian Rosario.

I'll give you Francisco. But the rest are just reaches or out of Alderson's control.
Sorry Rabbit, Trix are for kids.

All those moves didn't work.

Carrasco and Paulino were one of the bigger signings and they both sucked.

Francisco can bounce back, but he was still overpaid. That money looks so valuable to us right now considering how little we have to spend.

They knew how much it was cost to re-sign a dynamic batting champion playing shortstop. The minute they heard the Marlins interested in Reyes, they should have re-signed him for what he wanted because of the no first round pick. If that means back-loading his deal so the money is manageable now, fine. If it meant not signing Francisco and Rauch, who cares really? If they weren't prepared to make the highest offer in FA, they should have traded him. They simply held on to him to keep ticket sales.

I have no problems with the salary dump of K-Rod, but the money has not been spent on the team, which is what I thought was the idea. I don't care how much money he makes, he would have been better than Francisco. Adrian Rosario is not a nugget, he's at best a middle reliever but it looks like he has command issues.

They are not reaches, the moves/decisions failed period. Some more than others.

[Marty Mcfly]

We had these players in the past and we sucked.
Why would this past year be any different.

The worst argument in sports.

[fanofclendennon]

Yeah we would have been set with a line-up of:

SS-Reyes
CF-Pagan
3B-Wright
RF-Beltran
1B-Davis
LF-Hairston
2B-Tejada
C-Thole/Shoppach

That line-up with this pitching staff of Dickey, Niese, Santana, Harvey and Gee would have been tremendous.

Our problem in 2011 is that our starting pitching sucked balls, but we were able to score runs. This year it was the opposite.

Correct. Don't forget you'd now have Murphy as someone who could fill in at third, second, and first, pinch hit off the bench, and DH in the AL games. Tejada would always be able to slide back to shortstop to give Reyes a breather too.

You look up and with this starting pitching along with a bonafide closer, you've got a real baseball team.

So close but so far.

[Claymation]

Clay, you just committed what's known as a logical fallacy.

We sucked not because of Reyes or Pagan or Beltran or K-Rod. We sucked because of the crap that was around them.

So what did Sandy do? He improved the crap around them while he replaced Reyes, Pagan, Beltran, and K-Rod with affordable place holders.

Pagan is a role player that has the baseball IQ of a turtle. He posted an ops of .694 in 2011.

Beltran is a border line Hall of Famer. But he was also a free agent this past off season.

Reyes is an All-Star SS, no doubt but at the time the owners didn't have that kind of money to resign him.

K-Rod is not worth 17 million.
These 4 players would have not put this team over the top this year.

Not one of these ball players are part of the future, except maybe Reyes. You want to win now, I get that. The problem is, we don't have the farm just yet to do that. And it looks like we are stuck with a 100 million dollar payroll. This is the reality, embrace it and deal with it.

We haven't won with this group, and it was a 140+ million dollar payroll in 2011. Why do you think that's going to change?

[Claymation]

Yes we were compensated but not with a first round pick. The Mets would have been much better off trading him. They would have gotten pieces much more valuable then what they had available in the draft.

Please tell what they would have gotten for him?

Me personally, I loved watching Reyes win the batting championship.

[YoungStuna28]

Pagan is not a role player and his poor baseball IQ is harshly overstated. He's definitely not the mule Pinella managed in 2006-2007. His WAR was 4.8 this year extremely close to the 5.4 WAR he put up in 2010 with us. 2011 was a down season and the Mets sold low because he supposedly "wasn't liked in the clubhouse" and "we needed to move him."

Bottom line, with him, Reyes, Beltran and K-Rod, we would have been very close to the wild card and we might have even gotten it. All those times we lost to the Nationals this year would not have happened imo.

[Claymation]

Yeah we would have been set with a line-up of:

SS-Reyes
CF-Pagan
3B-Wright
RF-Beltran
1B-Davis
LF-Hairston
2B-Tejada
C-Thole/Shoppach

That line-up with this pitching staff of Dickey, Niese, Santana, Harvey and Gee would have been tremendous.

Our problem in 2011 is that our starting pitching sucked balls, but we were able to score runs. This year it was the opposite.

I understand that you live in a world where everyone rides ponies, eats rainbows and poops butterflies, but the reality is that the owners put the kabosh on spending, so Reyes and Beltran fluttered off to different pastures.