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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marty Mcfly View Post
    He was probably sick and tired of playing for a club going nowhere fast for owners who don't give a crap about baseball and have no intention of improving the team for years.
    Bahzing!

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coupon View Post
    The article was a smear. In order to dump Pagan's salary and use it for 2 cheaper players to fill CF and the BP it was important to tell fans that Pagan was a bad egg. It was lies told by Wilpon's stooges to get fans to jump on board another horrible move.

    The Wilpons have been smearing players in similar circumstances for years, both before and after trades. I saw the same thing over and over again in the late 1980s when Fred took over and started trading guys like Kevin Mitchell, Lenny Dykstra, etc, for garbage. I think we all remember the business about the Walter Reade visit and the controversy over Beltran's knee surgery. Hell, they even tried to smear Adam Rubin, accusing him of lobbying them for a "yob"...

    I'm surprised you never noticed.
    That is hardly a smear. It's not like there are a bunch of new anonymous quotes tearing the guy to shreds. The only new quote was "Angel isn’t a bad guy, but we needed to move him" hardly anything outrageous.

    The Martino story was stuff he'd seen (Martino probably spends much more time in the clubhouse than the Wilpons do)..stuff that had been reported even while Pagan was still here...about how his attitude seemed a lot different from the previous years. And some of that was talked about as reasons the Mets were thinking about non-tendering him. This isn't all just a post-hoc analysis to explain away a poor trade. Besides, its not like the media lately has been in the business of trying to make the Mets and/or the Wilpons look good. The Wilpons deserve flack for a lot of things...but a "smear" campaign against Pagan after he left isn't one of them. This isnt a smear campaign. If you want to get on them for being cheap and the $ being part of the reason Sandy chose to move Pagan, that is fine...but treating this article as some big smear is silly IMO.

    I actually give Martino some credit for not backtracking and pretending he knew all along it was crazy for the Mets to trade Pagan. It's fun and easy to rip the Mets these days....he could join the party if he wanted to and tear them apart for this trade now that it hasn't worked out. But he stuck by what he had reported previously. Below are just a couple blurbs from what he wrote about Pagan around mid-year and after the season last yr, respectively.

    Angel Pagan, in 2010, was the guy who told you he believed in the Mets, even when it was clear the team was sinking. He was smiling. He was chatting. He was productive and he was engaged.

    Angel Pagan, in 2011, is the guy with the headphones, staring into his locker. He is often frowning. He is not productive and he seldom interacts with teammates. Why?

    "I'm fine," Pagan insisted on Friday, a few minutes after a 20-minute meeting with Terry Collins. The manager wanted to know if everything was OK and coincidentally, a reporter was wondering the same. Carlos Beltran has also sat with Pagan for numerous long talks this year.
    http://articles.nydailynews.com/2011...-terry-collins

    Several times last season Terry Collins tried to connect with Pagan, calling him into the office and asking why he was sulking. A positive clubhouse presence the year before, Pagan seem troubled by his dip in performance in 2011. Although he enjoyed a far better season at the plate than Ankiel did, some Mets officials strongly believe that Pagan will not be a good fit next year.
    http://articles.nydailynews.com/2011...ence-nontender
    Last edited by Raspy44; 10-25-2012 at 01:31 PM.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna28 View Post
    Carrasco, Francisco, Paulino, Torres, Ramirez, Reyes situation, K-Rod deal, etc.
    I'm sorry?
    Carrasco got 2 year deal. The Mets couldn't afford that.

    Francisco only received a 2 year deal at 6.5 million, not a bad contract that hamstrings the franchise.

    What about Paulino? He had an ops of .663 last year.

    We are already discussing the Pagan trade.

    They were looking to resign Reyes, it fell thru.

    K-Rod was a salary dump, this franchise couldn't afford a 17 million dollar option.

    What etc.?


    ďNinety percent Iíll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent Iíll probably waste.Ē
    - Tug McGraw, on his plans for his $75,000 salary

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanofclendennon View Post
    Speak for yourself.

    Who else but the Anti Christ could ponder keeping Andres Torres while considering dealing RA Dickey?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPViu...eature=related
    Who is pondering dealing Dickey?
    They want to resign him.
    Unless I missed something.


    ďNinety percent Iíll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent Iíll probably waste.Ē
    - Tug McGraw, on his plans for his $75,000 salary

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by clayamtion View Post
    Who is pondering dealing Dickey?
    They want to resign him.
    Unless I missed something.
    The C of D has learned to be cynical, sometimes to a fault, and often to the detriment of our congregation.

    But we'll leave the light on for you.
    "Mr. Martin Tanner, Baritone, of Dayton, Ohio made his Town Hall debut last night. He came well prepared, but unfortunately his presentation was not up to contemporary professional standards. His voice lacks the range of tonal color necessary to make it consistently interesting. Full time consideration of another endeavor might be in order."

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by clayamtion View Post
    I'm sorry?
    Carrasco got 2 year deal. The Mets couldn't afford that.

    Francisco only received a 2 year deal at 6.5 million, not a bad contract that hamstrings the franchise.

    What about Paulino? He had an ops of .663 last year.

    We are already discussing the Pagan trade.

    They were looking to resign Reyes, it fell thru.

    K-Rod was a salary dump, this franchise couldn't afford a 17 million dollar option.

    What etc.?
    You asked me Sandy's failings. I told you what they were.

    Carrasco and Paulino were his big winter meeting signings and both ****ing sucked balls and are long gone.

    Francisco at 2 years 12 million looks TERRIBLE right now. $6.5MM could have gotten us an outfielder this off-season via FA market.

    They were never seriously looking to re-sign Reyes and he left. That is a fail.

    K-Rod was a salary dump, but I thought the idea was to re-invest that money in the team? The players we got for him are useless and the money went unspent.

    That is 7 players that were failures in the way they performed or the way they were handled.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna28 View Post
    You asked me Sandy's failings. I told you what they were.

    Carrasco and Paulino were his big winter meeting signings and both ****ing sucked balls and are long gone.

    Francisco at 2 years 12 million looks TERRIBLE right now. $6.5MM could have gotten us an outfielder this off-season via FA market.

    They were never seriously looking to re-sign Reyes and he left. That is a fail.

    K-Rod was a salary dump, but I thought the idea was to re-invest that money in the team? The players we got for him are useless and the money went unspent.

    That is 7 players that were failures in the way they performed or the way they were handled.
    I defended Sandy when we first got him and when he unloaded Beltran for a prospect like Wheeler and got rid of K-Fraud I thought things would only continue to get better. Then the end of the 2011 season ended and the winter began. Reyes leaving without so much as an offer, the signings of Rauch, Francisco and the trade of Pagan were a fail. Now it seems as if they will drag their feet with resigning Dickey and extending Wright until they come to the ever so clever decision of just picking up their options. So far since the Beltran trade the best player the Mets acquired was Kelly Shoppach, that's just plain pathetic.

  8. #53
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    ...and Shoppach sucked in his brief time here.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna28 View Post
    ...and Shoppach sucked in his brief time here.
    You've made my point on how pathetic it's been. Although Shoppach is an upgrade from the garbage we had behind the plate starting the 2012 season.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna28 View Post
    You asked me Sandy's failings. I told you what they were.

    Carrasco and Paulino were his big winter meeting signings and both ****ing sucked balls and are long gone.

    Francisco at 2 years 12 million looks TERRIBLE right now. $6.5MM could have gotten us an outfielder this off-season via FA market.

    They were never seriously looking to re-sign Reyes and he left. That is a fail.

    K-Rod was a salary dump, but I thought the idea was to re-invest that money in the team? The players we got for him are useless and the money went unspent.

    That is 7 players that were failures in the way they performed or the way they were handled.
    How about Eamus as the opening day second baseman in 2011?

    ...but again he is forced to scrape the bottom of the barrel here with these guys because of the ****ing owners.


    The one thing I hate Sandy for is not re-signing Reyes, IMO it was the Wilpon's being in debt and Sandy not wanting to give Reyes a long term deal the reason why he is not here anymore, the rest of the moves he has made have been minor ones.

    In my book Sandy has done 1 awful thing and one great thing as a Mets GM, the great thing is getting Wheeler obviously.
    Last edited by Sick Of It All; 10-25-2012 at 08:55 PM.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sick Of It All View Post
    How about Eamus as the opening day second baseman in 2010?

    ...but again he is forced to scrape the bottom of the barrel here with these guys because of the ****ing owners.


    The one thing I hate Sandy for is not re-signing Reyes, IMO it was the Wilpon's being in debt and Sandy not wanting to give Reyes a long term deal the reason why he is not here anymore, the rest of the moves he has made have been minor ones.

    In my book Sandy has done 1 awful thing and one great thing as a Mets GM, the great thing is getting Wheeler obviously.
    Yeah I knew I was forgetting something, which is why I put etc. in my first post.

    Yeah, it's not all his fault, but a lot of the moves where he's actually spent money on hasn't worked.

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sick Of It All View Post
    How about Eamus as the opening day second baseman in 2011?

    ...but again he is forced to scrape the bottom of the barrel here with these guys because of the ****ing owners.


    The one thing I hate Sandy for is not re-signing Reyes, IMO it was the Wilpon's being in debt and Sandy not wanting to give Reyes a long term deal the reason why he is not here anymore, the rest of the moves he has made have been minor ones.

    In my book Sandy has done 1 awful thing and one great thing as a Mets GM, the great thing is getting Wheeler obviously.
    Emaus was one of the best spring training players around. Then when April came around he turned into Razor Shines.

  13. #58
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    Pretty much every move Alderson has made so far has been a complete bust.

    Letting Capuano and Pagan go was just awful.

    He got nothing in return for Krod and Beltran would have helped us tremendously.

    Having Dickey, Capuano, Santana, Niese, Gee, Harvey, and Young with Pagan, Krod, and Beltran could very well have made us a legit playoff contender.
    Last edited by Vintage; 10-26-2012 at 04:02 AM.

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna28 View Post
    ...and Shoppach sucked in his brief time here.
    He's better than Thole.


    ďNinety percent Iíll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent Iíll probably waste.Ē
    - Tug McGraw, on his plans for his $75,000 salary

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sick Of It All View Post
    How about Eamus as the opening day second baseman in 2011?

    ...but again he is forced to scrape the bottom of the barrel here with these guys because of the ****ing owners.


    The one thing I hate Sandy for is not re-signing Reyes, IMO it was the Wilpon's being in debt and Sandy not wanting to give Reyes a long term deal the reason why he is not here anymore, the rest of the moves he has made have been minor ones.

    In my book Sandy has done 1 awful thing and one great thing as a Mets GM, the great thing is getting Wheeler obviously.
    Did you want Castillo, and how long the Emaus experiment last?


    ďNinety percent Iíll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent Iíll probably waste.Ē
    - Tug McGraw, on his plans for his $75,000 salary

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