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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by kanersen View Post
    In all fairness, the cubs fanbase and it seems the cubs front office want 2 top 5 prospects from good farms for a year of Matt Garza. What makes you think you'd be able to get JJ who's been a much better pitcher (when healthy, which is a big factor) then Garza for pennies on the dollar.
    Well, in fairness I think it would cost us Baez + lesser guys for Johnson + all his salary. Before, I wanted Syndeergard, Nicolino, and two lesser guys for Garza and Russell. After opening day, he cost much less due to the compensation issue.

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by C-ross12 View Post
    Well, in fairness I think it would cost us Baez + lesser guys for Johnson + all his salary. Before, I wanted Syndeergard, Nicolino, and two lesser guys for Garza and Russell. After opening day, he cost much less due to the compensation issue.
    That is the point I tried making earlier. Johnson is not going to come cheap. One year remaining on his salary is not a bad thing. So taking it on isn't going to make him come cheaper. While I would not deal Baez for Johnson, you are right. That is probably going to be the cost. The marlins were asking a lot for him at the deadline. 2 or 3 prospects in the Baez class, if I remember correctly. And you are also right, why do Cubs fans think they should get 2 top prospects and more for Garza but only give up lesser guys for Johnson? I am not sure I agree that Johnson is better than Garza, but even equal he should bring the same return.
    But if the Cubs also added Buehrle to the deal and took his entire salary they might get those two cheaper. Maybe that deal can be made without losing Baez, Almora, Solar or Visciano. Because of the relieve in payroll the Cubs are giving the Marlins by taking Beuhrle they may be able to get those guys for a decent price. Maybe 2 prospects in the 5 thru 12 range and another high risk high reward guy not in the top 20 of the organization. IMO that is a possibility and something I would consider. I would rather have Johnson for one year and Beuhrle for 3 than 2 guys from the Marcum, E. Jackson, Sanchez, etc... class on 5 year deals for 14M or more per year. If getting the 2 Marlin pitchers cost more than what I am suggesting then the Cubs should walk away.

  3. #78
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    If that is all true (and it probably is) best case scenerio for the Cubs, Johnson dealt now and not saved for mid season, gets a good haul (maybe 2 baez types), garza pitches well and johnson is off the market come mid season.


  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by kanersen View Post
    In all fairness, the cubs fanbase and it seems the cubs front office want 2 top 5 prospects from good farms for a year of Matt Garza. What makes you think you'd be able to get JJ who's been a much better pitcher (when healthy, which is a big factor) then Garza for pennies on the dollar.
    The health issue has been addressed, but I think some are looking at it like flipping real estate. Acquire him from the Marlins while picking up all of his contract, then trade him to someone else while eating his contract, theoretically receiving a substantially better package than it took to get him. Although that could be offset by his decreased value at the deadline compared to the offseason, not to mention the potential to get stuck with him injured.

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by ty_smitty21 View Post
    Is it too much to ask this offseason to sign Bourne, and Mccarthy... And trade for Johnson, Upton, and Wright?

    After 101 losses.... it's easy to fantasize.

    I just hope this offseason brings us another couple long-term pieces to get excited about to keep building our core.
    All fantasy. The Cubs MIGHT get one of the above mentioned people but all talent is going to come up from the minors.

    The only players the Cubs will target in FA are starting pitchers. The farm doesn't have any near ready major leaguers who are oozing with potential.

    Cubs will be lucky to be 70-90 next year but it will be fun watching the kids grow.
    Cutlerized

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by ty_smitty21 View Post
    Is it too much to ask this offseason to sign Bourne, and Mccarthy... And trade for Johnson, Upton, and Wright?

    After 101 losses.... it's easy to fantasize.

    I just hope this offseason brings us another couple long-term pieces to get excited about to keep building our core.
    I hope you're not being serious here. Trading for all of Johnson, Upton, and Wright isn't a possibility for us or any team. There just aren't enough assets to do that, unless you start including major league assets like Rizzo and Samardzija in those packages.

    McCarthy is a risky play considering he had emergency surgery on his skull. Would not be shocked if he returned completely snake bitten.

    1934 1938 1961 2010 2013

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by A New Era View Post
    If that is all true (and it probably is) best case scenerio for the Cubs, Johnson dealt now and not saved for mid season, gets a good haul (maybe 2 baez types), garza pitches well and johnson is off the market come mid season.
    But if Garza is pitching well, isn't he someone you might want to sign long term? It's not like the Cubs have a ton of guys waiting in the wings on the farm. And they could conceivably start having some of the impact offensive players ready to contribute in 2014 or 2015.

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grifter View Post
    But if Garza is pitching well, isn't he someone you might want to sign long term? It's not like the Cubs have a ton of guys waiting in the wings on the farm. And they could conceivably start having some of the impact offensive players ready to contribute in 2014 or 2015.
    wouldn't be totally against that.


  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rynoplasty View Post
    The health issue has been addressed, but I think some are looking at it like flipping real estate. Acquire him from the Marlins while picking up all of his contract, then trade him to someone else while eating his contract, theoretically receiving a substantially better package than it took to get him. Although that could be offset by his decreased value at the deadline compared to the offseason, not to mention the potential to get stuck with him injured.
    I've seen alot of mentions with picking up Johnson's salary. I don't think that will be a big issue with alot of teams trying to aquire him since he only has 1 year at 13.7 mill on his contract. Most teams outside of say Tampa Bay or Oakland can easily absorb that commitment in their payroll, and I think Friedman and Bean are too smart to pay a premium in prospects just so they save about 10 mill in one year. Keep in mind as well 'flipping' JJ would eliminate the draft pick compensation for the team that acquires him in the middle of the year. This isn't some 3 year 60 million contract that you are making more appealing trying to pay half of - JJ can be absorbed by the majority of the teams out there without any problem. If the Cubs do get him I think they'd be wise trying to resign him instead of 'flipping him' through half the season. Most GM's are smart enough in the mlb to not buy on a mark up after they weren't willing to pony up on the same player less then half a season ago for value that was less - just to save 10 million off their payroll. Especially when they could have had draft pick compensation as a cushion in case JJ leaves and would be without it acquiring him after the Cubs decide to 'flip him'

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by kanersen View Post
    I've seen alot of mentions with picking up Johnson's salary. I don't think that will be a big issue with alot of teams trying to aquire him since he only has 1 year at 13.7 mill on his contract. Most teams outside of say Tampa Bay or Oakland can easily absorb that commitment in their payroll, and I think Friedman and Bean are too smart to pay a premium in prospects just so they save about 10 mill in one year. Keep in mind as well 'flipping' JJ would eliminate the draft pick compensation for the team that acquires him in the middle of the year. This isn't some 3 year 60 million contract that you are making more appealing trying to pay half of - JJ can be absorbed by the majority of the teams out there without any problem. If the Cubs do get him I think they'd be wise trying to resign him instead of 'flipping him' through half the season. Most GM's are smart enough in the mlb to not buy on a mark up after they weren't willing to pony up on the same player less then half a season ago for value that was less - just to save 10 million off their payroll. Especially when they could have had draft pick compensation as a cushion in case JJ leaves and would be without it acquiring him after the Cubs decide to 'flip him'
    Exactly. And that is why he will not come cheaply. About the only way the Cubs can get him at a cheaper price is to take on a high salary with years left. That is where Beuhrle comes in. A Johnson and Beuhrle package from the Marlins will actually come cheaper than just Johnson. You might be able to get both of those guys and eat all their salary for 2 prospects in the 5 to 12 range and maybe one more high risk high reward guy not in the top 20 of the system. And I would do this if I were the Cubs. I would rather have Beuhrle for 3 years overpriced than most of the pitchers they are going to look at for 5 years, overpriced. And I would rather have Johnson for 1 year over and FA pitcher out there considering what the top ones will cost.

  11. #86
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    ^That's not a bad idea and I think it would work.

    Of course it might not if someone like Kyle Lohse gets something as ridiculous this year as Beurhle did last year and that overpriced contract (which I completely agree that it is) is then reaffirmed to be the going market rate.

  12. #87
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    I think even with taking Buerle and eating all of the contracts you still won't get Johnson without atleast Baez.

    I think we shouldn't get our hopes up too high here. There might be some guys that can be had with our 5-12 guys that might turn into real great players. But we'll probably have to look elsewhere.


  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by A New Era View Post
    I think even with taking Buerle and eating all of the contracts you still won't get Johnson without atleast Baez.

    I think we shouldn't get our hopes up too high here. There might be some guys that can be had with our 5-12 guys that might turn into real great players. But we'll probably have to look elsewhere.
    You are not going to give up a 19 yr old top prospect for a 34 yr old overpriced pitcher with 3 years left on his deal. The Marlins would be doing this deal to dump salary. They are not going to get anyone like Baez from any team if Beuhrle is in a deal and they insist on the other team taking on the entire salary.

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcal10 View Post
    You are not going to give up a 19 yr old top prospect for a 34 yr old overpriced pitcher with 3 years left on his deal. The Marlins would be doing this deal to dump salary. They are not going to get anyone like Baez from any team if Beuhrle is in a deal and they insist on the other team taking on the entire salary.
    It's about getting Johnson, not Buerle. We can hope the Marlin's FO is stupid enough to let Johnson go for nothing but extra salary relief and a couple middling prospects. Since ABTY chimed in with a dose of realism a couple page back, I just am not very optimistic.


  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by A New Era View Post
    It's about getting Johnson, not Buerle. We can hope the Marlin's FO is stupid enough to let Johnson go for nothing but extra salary relief and a couple middling prospects. Since ABTY chimed in with a dose of realism a couple page back, I just am not very optimistic.
    One year of JJ is not going to cost Javier Baez. Anyone who thinks that is just wrong. Baez is arguably a top 20 prospect while Johnson is an injury prone starter who is losing velocity. No team out there is going to trade their top prospect for one year of that.

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