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  1. #661
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    The Cardinals have reached the postseason in three of the five seasons since John Mozeliak became the team's general manager. Mozeliak, who was named St. Louis’ GM following the 2007 season, is now in the midst of a comparatively quiet offseason. Here are some details on the Cardinals from Derrick Goold of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch...

    The Cardinals have not revisited signing free agent right-hander Kyle Lohse since extending him a qualifying offer. Lohse declined the offer, preferring the free agent market. However, the 34-year-old hasn’t received an official offer to this point in the winter. It appears that teams are hesitant to surrender the draft pick required to complete a deal.
    The Cardinals are keeping tabs on the market for Cuban free agents Aledmys Diaz and Dariel Alvarez, Goold reports. Diaz, a shortstop, turns 23 next week, while Alvarez is a 24-year-old outfielder. The Cardinals plan to have a front office member in attendance at an upcoming workout for the players. Jesse Sanchez introduced us to Diaz and Alvarez in a piece at MLB.com back in November.

    Read more at http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/0...5M1zmfOzjf8.99

    Michael Wacha

    5-5, 2.79 Era, 83 So, 1.12 Whip

  2. #662
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    This offseason is so boring. It is nice not having any glaring needs though.

  3. #663
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chargedx View Post
    This offseason is so boring. It is nice not having any glaring needs though.
    You mean like middle infield? (ooops)

  4. #664
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    there aren't any good options out there..... unless we wanna trade our future which wont happen

  5. #665
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeronimoSon View Post
    You mean like middle infield? (ooops)
    That all depends on how Matt Carpenters switch to 2B goes. Middle infield of Furcal and Matt Carpenter isn't bad at all.

  6. #666
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tkais9009 View Post
    there aren't any good options out there..... unless we wanna trade our future which wont happen
    Exactly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chargedx View Post
    That all depends on how Matt Carpenters switch to 2B goes. Middle infield of Furcal and Matt Carpenter isn't bad at all.
    Exactly and if Carpenter fails it also doesn't mean their aren't other in house options

    At 2B we have

    Carpenter
    Descalso
    Wong

    All as options, Wong obviously is a situation where someone is hurt or he is raking and should be brought up to start over someone else.

    Also there are plenty of interesting options left for guys who can play one position or both. The best thing about these guys is they are all cheap and on short term deals

    Freddy Sanchez
    Ryan Theriot
    Jeff Baker
    Alex Gonzalez
    Kelly Johnson

    There are also trades that aren't completely idiotic.

    We have more than enough options to look at

  7. #667
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeronimoSon View Post
    You mean like middle infield? (ooops)
    why are you still in here

    Michael Wacha

    5-5, 2.79 Era, 83 So, 1.12 Whip

  8. #668
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeDirt05 View Post
    why are you still in here
    He's trolling because he's pissy everyone told him his deal he wanted was terrible. Just ignore him unless he's actually adding something to the conversation not just trolling around

  9. #669
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chargedx View Post
    That all depends on how Matt Carpenters switch to 2B goes. Middle infield of Furcal and Matt Carpenter isn't bad at all.
    Furcal at SS has a history that should make the Cardinals and their fans wary of him being able to be an everyday player. Matt Carpenter is new to the position and is learning it. This doesn't sound like a team that is going to compete to win the division i.e. strong up the middle... It sounds more like what the Cubs do every year: Hope that multiple players have healthy or career years and don't bother with suitable/qualified back up players at those positions..

    Do you want to see Peter Kozma/Daniel Descalso and / or Ty Wiggie as the everyday starters in the middle infield?

    I didn't think so, either..

  10. #670
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeronimoSon View Post
    Furcal at SS has a history that should make the Cardinals and their fans wary of him being able to be an everyday player. Matt Carpenter is new to the position and is learning it. This doesn't sound like a team that is going to compete to win the division i.e. strong up the middle... It sounds more like what the Cubs do every year: Hope that multiple players have healthy or career years and don't bother with suitable/qualified back up players at those positions..

    Do you want to see Peter Kozma/Daniel Descalso and / or Ty Wiggie as the everyday starters in the middle infield?

    I didn't think so, either..

    Except our only weakness is how questionable our middle infield is

    4 years ago, Furcal was a consistent top 5 shortstop in baseball, and Carpenter has a bat as valuable as Carlos Beltran. If he is able to get enough PA that is a lot of offense from a second basemen.

    Our rotation is top 10, arguably top 7 in baseball
    Our lineup is easily top 5 and many would say top 3 in all of baseball
    Our bullpen has question marks but was top 5 in baseball in the second half of the season
    and we have a top 5 farm system.

    So a questionable middle infield isn't that concerning.

    Furcal was the 17th best offensive shortstop last season and hit almost exactly the league average for a shortstop and his defense is basically league average maybe slightly worse. When he is on the field, he is a safe bet for a league average shortstop. If we have to go to our backups (Descalso and Kozma and hopefully they add someone like an Alex Gonzalez) then it exposes the position a bit, but each of them are an upgrade defensively (at this point, a healthy Furcal is better than Descalso defensively). So while you lose some offensive runs, you gain a few defensively.

    At second you have Descalso/Kozma as the sure players there. The plan is to let .355 wOBA patient hitter Matt Carpenter get as many reps there as possible. His defense will be below average, but offensively he would have been the 4th best second basemen in the game last year.

    So yes, it's still optimistic. Furcal and Carpenter, if healthy and in the lineup together is a top 10 offensive middle infield, and a 20-25thish defensive middle infield. So you have a league average middle infield if both are in there. If you lose one though, it falls further and further into a bottom 10 and eventually bottom 5 middle infield.



    But we will obviously compete for the NL Central title. We did last year with no production from the middle infield and we still won 90 games and were one win away from the WS.

    We need to add some depth at shortstop. But there isn't much out there that is reasonably priced, so chances are we'll just add a Alex Gonzalez/Freddy Sanchez type still and let them protect us in the event of a Furcal injury/Carpenter can't play second.

    It's a weak middle infield, but the entire team is so strong elsewhere it doesn't really matter that much.

  11. #671
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeronimoSon View Post
    Furcal at SS has a history that should make the Cardinals and their fans wary of him being able to be an everyday player. Matt Carpenter is new to the position and is learning it. This doesn't sound like a team that is going to compete to win the division i.e. strong up the middle... It sounds more like what the Cubs do every year: Hope that multiple players have healthy or career years and don't bother with suitable/qualified back up players at those positions..

    Do you want to see Peter Kozma/Daniel Descalso and / or Ty Wiggie as the everyday starters in the middle infield?

    I didn't think so, either..
    its worked for us the last two years.....

  12. #672
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    Except our only weakness is how questionable our middle infield is

    4 years ago, Furcal was a consistent top 5 shortstop in baseball, and Carpenter has a bat as valuable as Carlos Beltran. If he is able to get enough PA that is a lot of offense from a second basemen.

    Our rotation is top 10, arguably top 7 in baseball
    Our lineup is easily top 5 and many would say top 3 in all of baseball
    Our bullpen has question marks but was top 5 in baseball in the second half of the season
    and we have a top 5 farm system.

    So a questionable middle infield isn't that concerning.

    Furcal was the 17th best offensive shortstop last season and hit almost exactly the league average for a shortstop and his defense is basically league average maybe slightly worse. When he is on the field, he is a safe bet for a league average shortstop. If we have to go to our backups (Descalso and Kozma and hopefully they add someone like an Alex Gonzalez) then it exposes the position a bit, but each of them are an upgrade defensively (at this point, a healthy Furcal is better than Descalso defensively). So while you lose some offensive runs, you gain a few defensively.

    At second you have Descalso/Kozma as the sure players there. The plan is to let .355 wOBA patient hitter Matt Carpenter get as many reps there as possible. His defense will be below average, but offensively he would have been the 4th best second basemen in the game last year.

    So yes, it's still optimistic. Furcal and Carpenter, if healthy and in the lineup together is a top 10 offensive middle infield, and a 20-25thish defensive middle infield. So you have a league average middle infield if both are in there. If you lose one though, it falls further and further into a bottom 10 and eventually bottom 5 middle infield.



    But we will obviously compete for the NL Central title. We did last year with no production from the middle infield and we still won 90 games and were one win away from the WS.

    We need to add some depth at shortstop. But there isn't much out there that is reasonably priced, so chances are we'll just add a Alex Gonzalez/Freddy Sanchez type still and let them protect us in the event of a Furcal injury/Carpenter can't play second.

    It's a weak middle infield, but the entire team is so strong elsewhere it doesn't really matter that much.
    The rotation should be bolstered with the full season return of Waino and Carpenter. Jaime Garcia and Jake Westbrook should be good for no less than 40 starts. That leaves one to one and a half spots for Shelby, Trevor, Joe and Lance.. In short, the Cardinals SP start with two Cy Young capable front of the rotation starters, add two veteran pitching stalwarts and finish with four young power armed kids, all ready to rock. The Cardinals have the second best starting staff in MLB w/ only the Nationals having three Cy Young capable front of the rotation starters that edge out the Cards by a whisker.

    The Cardinals pen is deeper than their starting staff.. top five certainly, top three likely..

    The cardinals have depth and talent in the outfield, if only for the 2013 season. If Carlos Beltran is extended, that would be a good thing.. The outfield will not be the reason the Cards have any issues during the coming season.. it will be the infield.. and specifically the middle infield.

    The Middle Infield.. is a mess.. it's the weakest part of the team. Furcal as he ages quite ungracefully, can't stay on the field. Matt Carpenter is a stop gap being pressed into a spot he's unfamiliar with until the real Cards 2B, Kolten Wong is ready..and he's gonna be an XBH/Monster. He doesn't know the spot and the back ups, Kozma, Descalso & Wiggie are the kind of roster fodder that teams find themselves endlessly trying to improve..

    It blows.. having five roster spots with four that are replaceable or should be. That's the point of my posting...

  13. #673
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeronimoSon View Post
    The rotation should be bolstered with the full season return of Waino and Carpenter. Jaime Garcia and Jake Westbrook should be good for no less than 40 starts. That leaves one to one and a half spots for Shelby, Trevor, Joe and Lance.. In short, the Cardinals SP start with two Cy Young capable front of the rotation starters, add two veteran pitching stalwarts and finish with four young power armed kids, all ready to rock. The Cardinals have the second best starting staff in MLB w/ only the Nationals having three Cy Young capable front of the rotation starters that edge out the Cards by a whisker.

    The Cardinals pen is deeper than their starting staff.. top five certainly, top three likely..

    The cardinals have depth and talent in the outfield, if only for the 2013 season. If Carlos Beltran is extended, that would be a good thing.. The outfield will not be the reason the Cards have any issues during the coming season.. it will be the infield.. and specifically the middle infield.

    The Middle Infield.. is a mess.. it's the weakest part of the team. Furcal as he ages quite ungracefully, can't stay on the field. Matt Carpenter is a stop gap being pressed into a spot he's unfamiliar with until the real Cards 2B, Kolten Wong is ready..and he's gonna be an XBH/Monster. He doesn't know the spot and the back ups, Kozma, Descalso & Wiggie are the kind of roster fodder that teams find themselves endlessly trying to improve..

    It blows.. having five roster spots with four that are replaceable or should be. That's the point of my posting...
    Got you. I thought you were saying we couldn't compete with a bad middle infield.

    It's the most obvious and most glaring need. It has to be fixed by the time 2014 comes around. Ideally, Matt Carpenter could play there 100 games a season. That would really help. But we'll need a long term shortstop option.

    Kolton Wong will probably be ready for 2014. I'm not as high on him as others are. I think he is a Todd Walker look-a-like. Which is fine, just not the all-star that people seem to think he will be. I'm happy with a solid everyday player there though, it's been a revolving door for so long.

    Shortstop is our weakest position top to bottom in the organization. We can develop pitching and then more pitching, and outfielders. But shortstop is so weak.

    I would really like to see what it would take to sign Aldemis Diaz, he could really help in the short term for awhile.


    I don't think a trade is necessarily the best route for us. Shorstops are so expensive no matter how you acquire them. It's always best to develop them. I'm not that crazy about Asdrubal Cabrera, but I do like him. I just don't see him as an effective solution in the long term. Any trade for him is basically built on the idea of improving us for 2014. In 2013 he would likely be the everyday guy and then Furcal can join the mess at second with Carpenter, Descalso, and Kozma until Wong is up in 2014. But I just don't see a fit.


    The team overall is strong. Should easily compete and be close to 90 wins again. But the middle infield is a giant question mark that relies on health from Furcal and either stability or emergence at second base.

    I still believe in Greg Garcia more than anyone else. I think he is more capable to play shortstop and be an okay hitter at the big league level than others seem to think.

    Adding Diaz and letting Garcia mixed with Kozma/Descalso/etc etc etc all fight for short doesn't scare me.

    I also think the most reasonable trade route is either one of Nick Franklin or Brad Miller from Seattle, or for Jed Lowrie from Houston if a trade were to happen.

  14. #674
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    ...Shortstop is our weakest position top to bottom in the organization. We can develop pitching and then more pitching, and outfielders. But shortstop is so weak......I would really like to see what it would take to sign Aldemis Diaz, he could really help in the short term for awhile..... I don't think a trade is necessarily the best route for us. Shortstops are so expensive no matter how you acquire them. It's always best to develop them. I'm not that crazy about Asdrubal Cabrera, but I do like him. I just don't see him as an effective solution in the long term. Any trade for him is basically built on the idea of improving us for 2014. In 2013 he would likely be the everyday guy and then Furcal can join the mess at second with Carpenter, Descalso, and Kozma until Wong is up in 2014. But I just don't see a fit....I also think the most reasonable trade route is either one of Nick Franklin or Brad Miller from Seattle, or for Jed Lowrie from Houston if a trade were to happen
    When I proposed a trade earlier on this thread, I suggested Asdrubal Cabrera as the starter at SS or 2B for the 2013 and 2014 season. He's more than capable to play SS as that's his natural position, but, projects as a better defender as a second baseman, which he also plays well. In effect, he'd be a starting utility middle infielder.. kind of a hybrid every team would love to have. In the event Furcal goes down or needs a day off.. Asdrubal plays SS. If Matt Carpenter takes over for Freese at 3B, Asdrubal can play 2B. The roster becomes vastly superior because a vastly superior player can play all the middle infield spots and, in many ways, would be an improvement over what is already there, overall..

    The second part of that trade was the inclusion of the Indians # 1 Prospect and by far, the best SS prospect in MiLB baseball not named Profar. Some believe that it's a toss up on that, btw.. I'm not one of them. The inclusion in the deal would make the transition from a relative dearth of SS talent in the Cardinals system to giving Oscar Taveras a run for his money as the Cardinal # 1 prospect. Fancisco Lindor should be getting close to ML ready around the end of 2014 to 2015, thereby, dove tailing nicely into a long term solution at SS.

    w/r to the two Seattle SS's. Nick Franklin isn't a shortstop.. He just doesn't have the range to be able to play the spot. The Mariners have already begun the process of moving him to 2B.. a better spot for him.. Brad Miller is the goods. He'll stay at the SS spot and should be a good one. A possible comp for him would be Cozart of Cinci.. He's a real dirtbag, too. He'd sleep in the dugout so he could be in the ball park sooner and longer if you let him..

    Diaz is probably more of a High A type prospect right now. Real evaluations of him won't be known until he works out for the 10 or 13 clubs that allegedly have an interest in him and his compatriot, Alvarez.

    Just like the Cardinals have a propensity to produce pitchers.. the Indians are extremely deep and capable of producing middle infielders, specifically SS's. In the lower minors. TBH, there is a prospect around the same age as Lindor named Dorsyss Paulino that I believe will become every bit as good as Lindor, overall. He's just one of three guys like that on our reservation...

  15. #675
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeronimoSon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chargedx View Post
    That all depends on how Matt Carpenters switch to 2B goes. Middle infield of Furcal and Matt Carpenter isn't bad at all.
    Furcal at SS has a history that should make the Cardinals and their fans wary of him being able to be an everyday player. Matt Carpenter is new to the position and is learning it. This doesn't sound like a team that is going to compete to win the division i.e. strong up the middle... It sounds more like what the Cubs do every year: Hope that multiple players have healthy or career years and don't bother with suitable/qualified back up players at those positions..

    Do you want to see Peter Kozma/Daniel Descalso and / or Ty Wiggie as the everyday starters in the middle infield?

    I didn't think so, either..
    Aren't gona compete that's a joke coming from an Indians fan let me know when you guys are relevant and have 11 world championships

    Michael Wacha

    5-5, 2.79 Era, 83 So, 1.12 Whip

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