Like us on Facebook


Follow us on Twitter





Page 33 of 54 FirstFirst ... 23313233343543 ... LastLast
Results 481 to 495 of 796
  1. #481
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    7,393
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    Was Choate really worth that much compared to Burnett? Burnett is arguably better than Choate.

    Of course, it's nickels and dimes differences.

    I don't know why they gave him multiple years though.
    My guess would be stability. This could be zeps last year here. If he doesn't bounce back it will be.

    I know I wouldn't wanna go into 2013 offseason looking for 2 lefties. I think they'd like him on 2 years but dodgers were wanting him back so 3 may have been necessary.

    But stability would be my guess

  2. #482
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    38,283
    vCash
    1000
    Quote Originally Posted by stlfan544 View Post
    I loved La Russa and never questioned a move he made. I gotta kinda dissagree with the notion that La Russa wasn't a good strategist.

    The guy pulled moves out of his butt and they worked out. He did things most wouldn't think of doing. I've always respected and loved TLR and always will. I was definitely pissed when we started Royce Clayton over Ozzie though! I remember that from when I was young, I remember asking my older brother why he is doing that. My brother had said that the new manager Tony thinks that the younger clayton fits with the direction the team is going. He dissagreed and I remember saying I don't think that is the right choice at all. Just because a player is older doesn't mean he isn't hands down better than the rest of the players at the position. My brother had also said this manager we have knows what he's doing he used to manage Chicago and Oakland, he even won a world series in Oakland.
    The thing is, you notice it when he makes a move and it works, but you don't notice when he doesn't make a move and the positive didn't happen.

    His WPA for management (it's what was the teams winning probability after the manager made a move) was consistently middle of the road. But he was regarded and treated like an all-time great. And he isn't.


    Joe Maddon is consistently top 3 every year, Bruce Bochy and Terry Francona are high up as well. Tony was high up his first decade managing, but the rest of the league caught up to him toward the end. His last year (2011) he was 22nd in WPA.

    Btw, Ozzie Guillen is consistently the worst in baseball, no surprise there.


    Tony over-used his bullpen. Not a bad thing, but that's what he was given credit for.

    He would ignore others opinions with information (like batting Pujols cleanup like he should have, for over a decade) and he overly bunted and hit and ran.


    do you guys remember the 20 inning game against the Mets?

    Worst managed baseball game of all time.

    Hit and run with Pujols at the plate, and Ludwick at first, with the pitcher spot batting behind Pujols.

    There is no gain if Ludwick is safe or out, Pujols will be intentionally walked.

    He did this kind of stuff all the time. I can cite 100 examples if I wanted to take the time. He was not a great in-game strategist.

    The mere fact that we almost lost the 11 World Series with a pitcher at the plate should be enough of an example that I shouldn't have to go into detail. He was not good with his in-game strategy.

  3. #483
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    ILSTU
    Posts
    7,494
    vCash
    1500
    honestly... its not like we're gonna be hurting for payroll in 2014 and 15. If he is effective this year and hopefully next year, this contract is a huge win.

    the 3rd year at 2.5 is just a gamble. If he's still good, sweet. If not, cut him

  4. #484
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    illinois
    Posts
    807
    vCash
    1500
    Burnett got snagged by the Angels 2 yrs with an option for 9.5m. Not sure how/why Cards got out of the running, but in either case the longer year terms seem to be the market rate set by affeldt.

  5. #485
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    38,283
    vCash
    1000
    Quote Originally Posted by Skippy15 View Post
    My guess would be stability. This could be zeps last year here. If he doesn't bounce back it will be.

    I know I wouldn't wanna go into 2013 offseason looking for 2 lefties. I think they'd like him on 2 years but dodgers were wanting him back so 3 may have been necessary.

    But stability would be my guess
    Most likely.

  6. #486
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    7,393
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by Tkais9009 View Post
    honestly... its not like we're gonna be hurting for payroll in 2014 and 15. If he is effective this year and hopefully next year, this contract is a huge win.

    the 3rd year at 2.5 is just a gamble. If he's still good, sweet. If not, cut him
    Exactly. And if we have to cut him so what? We can't eat 2.5 million?

  7. #487
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    38,283
    vCash
    1000
    Quote Originally Posted by Tkais9009 View Post
    honestly... its not like we're gonna be hurting for payroll in 2014 and 15. If he is effective this year and hopefully next year, this contract is a huge win.

    the 3rd year at 2.5 is just a gamble. If he's still good, sweet. If not, cut him
    Yeah. It's not enough to be upset about or anything.

    Choate is solid.

    Assuming his health, we don't have to worry about the position for awhile, and he is cheap enough. Also, the market really seems to be rewarding loogys right now. So this isn't all that bad.

  8. #488
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    7,393
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    Yeah. It's not enough to be upset about or anything.

    Choate is solid.

    Assuming his health, we don't have to worry about the position for awhile, and he is cheap enough. Also, the market really seems to be rewarding loogys right now. So this isn't all that bad.
    It's one of those moves that you aren't running around the house in celebration like when we traded for Holliday.

    It's a we got a solid player at a solid rate, lets be happy and be excited we got better with the move

  9. #489
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    illinois
    Posts
    807
    vCash
    1500
    Alrighty... what's next on the shopping list.

  10. #490
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    38,283
    vCash
    1000
    The 20 inning game vs the Mets

    Things Tony did

    1. He put Kyle Lohse in left field, and let Joe Mather pitch
    The argument: It's Lohse's rest day, so he can be used as a pinch runner, to play long toss, or to even pinch hit if necessary.

    So Kyle Lohse gets put in the cleanup spot in the lineup because Matt Holliday was pulled in the 10th inning, and Joe Mather and Felipe Lopez pitched.

    Well Mather couldn't find the strike zone. Meanwhile, Lohse was asked to shag fly balls in left field, and make throws into the infield. And Mather couldn't find the plate and we eventually lost the game due to his inability to throw strikes well enough. Lohse at least could have thrown three quarter or made simulated game pitches which would have at least been strikes. He was putting out the same effort.

    2. Tony: 'I don't want to burn the bullpen in case I need them tomorrow' Ryan Franklin and Jason Motte each only pitching one inning, even though they are both capable of going more because they were not used the last two days.

    the argument: Who cares about tomorrow, if you win today, you don't have to win tomorrow. Tomorrow you might get 8 innings of shut out work out of your starter, or maybe your lineup gives you 8 runs in the first 4 innings, or maybe you get blown out early. You don't need to win tomorrow if you can win tonight's tied ball game.

    3. Bottom of the 19th. Ryan Ludwick leads off the inning with a walk facing Frankie Rodriguez
    The next batter is Pujols who has been intentionally walked all night because the cleanup hitter, Matt Holliday was pulled in the 10th inning, and the pitcher spot has been hitting cleanup. So with first base finally occupied. What does Tony put on? the hit and run. The one time you actually have first base occupied, and the one guy at the plate that can end this game. You want the runner to not only leave first base, but put the hitter in a situation where he is forced to chase a pitch, regardless if it is good or not.

    Pujols swung and missed, and Ludwick was thrown out. Even if he steals the bag successfully, Pujols is still going to be intentionally walked any way, leaving Lohse up to the plate.

    These are only examples, I could do a hell of a lot more. But this is just one game. There is a reason Tony has a very poor career mark in extra inning games.
    He is treated like a great baseball mind, but he really isn't.
    These are not the moves by a great baseball mind, I'm sorry.

  11. #491
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    38,283
    vCash
    1000
    Quote Originally Posted by Skippy15 View Post
    It's one of those moves that you aren't running around the house in celebration like when we traded for Holliday.

    It's a we got a solid player at a solid rate, lets be happy and be excited we got better with the move
    I just envisioned you running around your house half naked when you saw that we got Holliday.

  12. #492
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    38,283
    vCash
    1000
    Quote Originally Posted by cards7 View Post
    Alrighty... what's next on the shopping list.
    Nothing.

    Maybe a middle infielder that can bat right handed, possibly a right handed bench bat.


    Adam Wainwright extension maybe?

    Possible trade of Matt Adams.


    A very very quiet off-season for us.

  13. #493
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    7,393
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    I just envisioned you running around your house half naked when you saw that we got Holliday.
    Righhhht. I was Only half naked when it happened......

  14. #494
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    7,393
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    Nothing.

    Maybe a middle infielder that can bat right handed, possibly a right handed bench bat.


    Adam Wainwright extension maybe?

    Possible trade of Matt Adams.


    A very very quiet off-season for us.
    I think they have every intent on trading Skip after the two sides decided it would be best for both. Dodgers want him.

    That said I won't be surprised at all if a Skip for Punto straight up trade happens. Same positions (dodgers want skip for 2B) same contract. Same years left and same money. Wouldn't be surprised at all since Punto fits everything they want. A guy who can bat right handed (switch) can play good defense at both positions up the middle.

    It also works because we have to give Furcal and Beltran off time. Nights Furcal is off play Punto. Nights Beltran is off play carpenter in RF. Punto or Descalso at 2B. Nights Beltran and furcal are both off or injured play them all.

    Not a perfect situation as Punto isn't a great hitter but he's more than a solid player and all it takes is giving up a guy who while many fans love him the organization doesn't seem to want him.

    I would then replace Robinson with someone with more power but that's optional. Bench would be a combination of

    Cruz (catcher)
    Carpenter (if not starting)
    Punto
    Descalso
    Another player with power who can play outfield, specifically center

  15. #495
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    38,283
    vCash
    1000
    I still like the idea of signing Jeff Baker so damn much.

    If we can land someone that can mash lefties and play a corner outfield spot, and be comfortable getting 250 PA's a year, then we should sign that guy (especially if he has extra base power).

    Scott Hariston?

    He could emergency play second base as well (but it's been since 11 since he has). He could be ideal if he can play any innings at second.

    I would even give him 2/10 to be a commonly used bench player (but he would have to be able to play second base enough to make that money worth it).

    This is if we keep Skip of course, who is the back up centerfielder still, and Hariston can play center in a pinch (but not well, sort of like Beltran)
    Last edited by Jeffy25; 12-05-2012 at 06:57 PM.

Page 33 of 54 FirstFirst ... 23313233343543 ... LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •