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  1. #466
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    Cards bailing out on Sean Burnett.

    This has been a pretty unsuccessful week. We need a back up middle infielder, a lefty specialist and right handed outfielder

    How long till a trade goes down with the dodgers Skip for Punto lol

  2. #467
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    Goold is saying that the Cardinals are out on Sean Burnett.

    Goold in his column this morning had a list of LHP.

    Randy Choate -- 30 Ks, 9 BB in 116 PAs vs. LHB

    .158/.243/.218

    Sean Burnett -- 28 Ks, 1 BB in 95 PAs vs. LHB

    .211/.245/.289

    Manny Parra -- 33 Ks, 12 BB in 124 PAs vs. LHB

    .229/.323/.312

    J. P. Howell -- 20 Ks, 13 BB in 99 PAs vs. LHB

    .200/.306/.306

    Mike Gonzalez -- 23 Ks, 7 BB in 75 PAs vs. LHB

    .179/.257/.269

    Will Ohman -- 8 Ks, 3 BB in 64 PAs vs. LHB

    .186/.250/.305

    Tom Gorzelanny -- 20 Ks, 8 BB in 129 PAs vs. LHB

    .237/.289/.398

    He mentioned trading for Wesley Wright of the Astros as well.

    Wesley Wright -- 39 Ks, 9 BB in 133 PAs vs. LHB

    .198/.265/.273


    I'd say go after Randy Choate.
    Last edited by cards7; 12-05-2012 at 04:04 PM.

  3. #468
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    Lets bring back Steve Kline

  4. #469
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    Giving Tony the middle finger from the bullpen.

  5. #470
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    You know the more I think about it the more I seriously feel like a Punto for Skip deal is possible. Dodgers want skip to platoon with Ellis at 2B. They are stacked at SS and back up 2B. So Puntos value is diminished in LA

    Both are at 1.5 million this year. Punto is a plus defender at 2B and at least average at SS. Punto is for sure a worse hitter than Skip but provides more defense and more versatility in spots we need. He switch hits so we could add some righ handedness to the bench

    We take a small loss in the deal IMO but Skip doesn't have a place here next year anyway and this would solve out middle infield insure. Just throwing it out there.

    Also both are great clubhouse guy, which would take away sting of losing Skip. It would only be a short term fix but it would work. We do have a similar guy though in Descalso. Unless Descalso is in risk of losing his spot after is horribly inconsistent year at the plate
    Last edited by Skippy15; 12-05-2012 at 04:20 PM.

  6. #471
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    Quote Originally Posted by cards7 View Post
    Giving Tony the middle finger from the bullpen.
    Man how great would that be. Gotta love Steve, he's his own man

  7. #472
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    We've agreed to a deal with Randy Choate

    At least we took care of this and got someone great at getting lefties out. Pending details, right now I love this move as a lefty specialist

    Career vs lefties .201 batting average
    Last edited by Skippy15; 12-05-2012 at 04:44 PM.

  8. #473
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    great move for a LOOGY.


    Goold says
    Agreement with lefty Randy Choate described as in place, not finalized. Details to come. #stlcards #cardinals
    wonder what the terms are

  9. #474
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    I'm comfortable for Choate, as long as it's a one year deal.

    We still need a third option for Memphis at some point. But this is fine.

    All Loogy's are basically equal considering their usage. So don't overpay for one.

  10. #475
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    I'm comfortable for Choate, as long as it's a one year deal.

    We still need a third option for Memphis at some point. But this is fine.

    All Loogy's are basically equal considering their usage. So don't overpay for one.
    Get ready to get uncomfortable then because Jon Morosi is reporting from sources it's a 3 year deal lol

  11. #476
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    My thing is I have high doubts this will be an expensive contract like how Burnett will be. If we get 3 years of Choate for 6 million I will take that all day over 2 years of Burnett for 10 million.

    The guy is a stud at getting lefties out. Now if its a terrible rate for 3 years that mindset could change
    Last edited by Skippy15; 12-05-2012 at 05:12 PM.

  12. #477
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    7.5 for 3 years.

    2.25 a year for 3 years a man who has done this great vs lefties? I'll take that

  13. #478
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    3 years at the price isn't bad... probably would have gone 2 figuring we'll have someone to replace him by then. As long as he stays healthy and doesn't trevor miller us.

  14. #479
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    Quote Originally Posted by bpmd2k View Post
    So many things are wrong with this I don't even know where to begin. LaRussa was ferocious in defending and protecting his players.
    Not all of his players.

    He threw several players under the bus publicly.

    This is pretty much a universal fact. Second, he threw at Braun because Braun was acting like a ***** and LaRussa is old school. That is how things were handled. He didn't care what anyone thinks, he managed his team the way he wanted it. Which imo is admirable even if I didn't agree with some of his decisions. LaRussa never did anything to harm his team in the standings, you are bringing up an arbitrary issue that had no bearing on the season with the Braun thing.
    What?

    No.

    He threw at Braun 'because they hit Pujols'

    It has absolutely nothing to do with Braun, take the homer glasses off.

    It's because Pujols was hit in the hands accidentally, and Tony took great offense to his star player being hit, so he wanted to hit their star player back.

    Which was more important of course, than winning the damn game.

    Maybe you just don't remember the incident

    http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/20...ng-last-night/

    http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?...s_mlb&c_id=mlb

    Sorry, he isn't defending anybody. It was accidental when Pujols got hit. But instead of the concern being to win the game. He leads off the 7th of a tied game by 'returning fire' instead of focusing on winning an important game.

    That is incredibly petty. If you want to stick up for Pujols, do it at a time that isn't critical to winning.

    Cardinals had a 41.6% chance of winning this game before they hit Braun.

    After Braun was hit, they were down to a 35.7% chance to win the game.

    They ended up getting lucky that Braun got thrown out at the plate in that inning, otherwise we would have lost that game (we eventually won in extra innings). The Cardinals were, at the time time, 2.5 back of the Brewers with about 40 games to go.

    And this isn't an isolated incident, this was simply an example of something he did a lot. To him, it was more important to 'return fire' then it was to win the game.



    I don't get what you are saying when you say LaRussa drove away superstars because of his ego or whatever you are implying. Please give an example? Most of the players that left, left because they were dicks.
    Ozzie Smith
    Scott Rolen
    Jim Edmonds
    JD Drew
    Colby Rasmus

    These are guys that didn't have issues elsewhere. They weren't all 'dicks'.

    St. Louis is the only place that I know of that would send a superstar packing instead of their manager if there was an altercation between star player and manager. We chose to favor TLR, instead of the player. Which is fine. But the issue is that, he could not find a way to work it out. And that is unfortunate.

    Now I'm not debating each player and each situation, as they are each different. But other managers don't seem to have this issue of publicly airing out their laundry with some players.


    He holds grudges, and it impairs his judgment.


    The Cardinals organization as whole never put up with things like that. It's just the way they handle it. So the JD Drews and the Scott Rolens were moved because of THEIR attitudes not Tony's. And if you are implying that the Cardinals could not get FA's to come to STL because of LaRussa's ego, well that is just insane. It's because of ownership not LaRussa.
    What?

    I never said anything about free agents not coming to St. Louis.

    It's smart not to over pay for players declines. not signing free agents has nothing to do with Tony, I don't know where you got that, I never said that.

    A couple more things ... 3 WS rings and one of the only managers to win one in both leagues say that he knew what he was doing. It's not like LaRussa had a plethora of talent outside of 04-05.
    What?

    He has had the opportunity to manage more hall of famers than any other manager of all time. He has had plenty of talent given to him.

    The rest of these seasons he stretched every ounce of performance out of what little he had. I mean this guy was given players like Sidney Ponson, Kip Wells, Jason Marquis, Preston Wilson, Juan Encarnacion, Tony Womack, Junior Spivey etc. etc. etc. I could go on about all of the Scrubs that the Cardinals trot out every year. You act like LaRussa had a lot to work with in his time in STL. But his in game strategy is probably why the Cardinals have 2 Championships in my lifetime.
    This is the problem.

    you are crediting, without acknowledging the wrongs that he did.

    And he didn't squeeze talent out of these guys. He managed them. Every manager that sticks around for 30 years is going to have guys that give them their career years. Tony isn't some special commodity at this.

    The rings are special. A lot of that goes to the manager. But Tony has never had a lack of talent on his team that he had to bring talent out of nowhere. He was also very lucky to have Dave Duncan his entire coaching career, arguably the best pitching coach of all time.

    And he did have a lot to work with in his time in St. Louis

    the greatest player of this generation, MV3, Carpenter and Wainwright, Matt Morris, and a 70 home run hitter. He has had a ton of talent on his rosters.
    Last edited by Jeffy25; 12-05-2012 at 06:08 PM.

  15. #480
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    Was Choate really worth that much compared to Burnett? Burnett is arguably better than Choate.

    Of course, it's nickels and dimes differences.

    I don't know why they gave him multiple years though.

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