Post-Mortem: Offseason Thread

[cards7]

The Dodgers are interested acquiring Skip Schumaker. The Cardinals are willing to trade him.

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/blog/ml...skip-schumaker

Dodgers want Skip

Anyone got an idea what we could possibly get from the Dodgers for Skip? I suppose if he were to be traded it would be nice to trade him to a team near his hometown. Would have to applaud Mo for giving Skip a respectable trade to a standout Cardinal if he goes to the Dodgers.

[stlfan544]

Wow that's a lot for scutaro but hey if you can get 2 good years then its worth the gamble.

As for the skip trade how bout dee gordon. Lol ya doubt skip could get him.

[Jeffy25]

Not that I care because I'm not a TLR lover by any means, I liked him. I thought he was a good manager but was a pretty abrasive person.

But do you have some unfond feelings with LaRussa because you didn't like his managing style or did it have something to do with how it went down with Ozzie smith, someone you have said before your quite fond of lol

It's because he was petty and unnecessary abrasive way too often. He irritated me, and because his in-game strategy was weak, yet people acted like he was a genius.

I respect Tony. But I'm not a fan of his.

Intentionally throwing at Ryan Braun 'to send a message' when we were in a pennant race, within reach of the Brewers in 11 in the 7th inning of a tied game to lead off the inning. So, let's put the winning run on base? Which is what happened btw. It's another example of him putting 'a message' and his personal feelings on a situation over the team winning a baseball game in a pennant race.

The fact that he managed the World Series so badly, that if Daniel Descalso and Jon Jay don't let off the bottom of the 9th in Game 6, we would have ended the World Series with Kyle Lohse at the plate.

The driving away of consistent super stars doesn't help, but that can happen. Especially when you have such strong ego's all over the place. I just don't get the sense that that is going to happen with Matheny.


He was too much of a drama queen when it came to his own personal issues over that of his players. It drove me insane. And he was not this great in-game strategist. In fact, he was toward one of the worst by the time he retired. When he come on as a manager in the 70's, yes, he was above average with his use of the bullpen. But baseball caught up to him after 30 years and he no longer adapted.


I respect Tony, I think he was a good manager overall. But he was given far too much praise for what the reality really presented. The fact that the Reds brawl still brings him so much anger shows the sign of someone with some petty altercations that he can't get over.

I respect Matheny too, but he handles himself differently, and he isn't unnecessarily abrasive.

Comes down to two things for me:

He was regarded by many as this great baseball mind, and he really wasn't.

And he would allow his personal issues with opposing players or managers or situations trump the interests of the team to actually win a game.

[Jeffy25]

Also, speaking of Ozzie.

Quite sad, but he auctioned off his gold gloves and WS rings for 'family planning'

[Jeffy25]

If the market cools on Jeff Keppinger (doubtful, I imagine he'll be a Yankee soon). He would be a good option on a one year deal.

[bpmd2k]

It's because he was petty and unnecessary abrasive way too often. He irritated me, and because his in-game strategy was weak, yet people acted like he was a genius.

I respect Tony. But I'm not a fan of his.

Intentionally throwing at Ryan Braun 'to send a message' when we were in a pennant race, within reach of the Brewers in 11 in the 7th inning of a tied game to lead off the inning. So, let's put the winning run on base? Which is what happened btw. It's another example of him putting 'a message' and his personal feelings on a situation over the team winning a baseball game in a pennant race.

The fact that he managed the World Series so badly, that if Daniel Descalso and Jon Jay don't let off the bottom of the 9th in Game 6, we would have ended the World Series with Kyle Lohse at the plate.

The driving away of consistent super stars doesn't help, but that can happen. Especially when you have such strong ego's all over the place. I just don't get the sense that that is going to happen with Matheny.


He was too much of a drama queen when it came to his own personal issues over that of his players. It drove me insane. And he was not this great in-game strategist. In fact, he was toward one of the worst by the time he retired. When he come on as a manager in the 70's, yes, he was above average with his use of the bullpen. But baseball caught up to him after 30 years and he no longer adapted.


I respect Tony, I think he was a good manager overall. But he was given far too much praise for what the reality really presented. The fact that the Reds brawl still brings him so much anger shows the sign of someone with some petty altercations that he can't get over.

I respect Matheny too, but he handles himself differently, and he isn't unnecessarily abrasive.

Comes down to two things for me:

He was regarded by many as this great baseball mind, and he really wasn't.

And he would allow his personal issues with opposing players or managers or situations trump the interests of the team to actually win a game.

So many things are wrong with this I don't even know where to begin. LaRussa was ferocious in defending and protecting his players. This is pretty much a universal fact. Second, he threw at Braun because Braun was acting like a ***** and LaRussa is old school. That is how things were handled. He didn't care what anyone thinks, he managed his team the way he wanted it. Which imo is admirable even if I didn't agree with some of his decisions. LaRussa never did anything to harm his team in the standings, you are bringing up an arbitrary issue that had no bearing on the season with the Braun thing.

I don't get what you are saying when you say LaRussa drove away superstars because of his ego or whatever you are implying. Please give an example? Most of the players that left, left because they were dicks. The Cardinals organization as whole never put up with things like that. It's just the way they handle it. So the JD Drews and the Scott Rolens were moved because of THEIR attitudes not Tony's. And if you are implying that the Cardinals could not get FA's to come to STL because of LaRussa's ego, well that is just insane. It's because of ownership not LaRussa.

A couple more things ... 3 WS rings and one of the only managers to win one in both leagues say that he knew what he was doing. It's not like LaRussa had a plethora of talent outside of 04-05. The rest of these seasons he stretched every ounce of performance out of what little he had. I mean this guy was given players like Sidney Ponson, Kip Wells, Jason Marquis, Preston Wilson, Juan Encarnacion, Tony Womack, Junior Spivey etc. etc. etc. I could go on about all of the Scrubs that the Cardinals trot out every year. You act like LaRussa had a lot to work with in his time in STL. But his in game strategy is probably why the Cardinals have 2 Championships in my lifetime.

[Skippy15]

It's because he was petty and unnecessary abrasive way too often. He irritated me, and because his in-game strategy was weak, yet people acted like he was a genius.

I respect Tony. But I'm not a fan of his.

Intentionally throwing at Ryan Braun 'to send a message' when we were in a pennant race, within reach of the Brewers in 11 in the 7th inning of a tied game to lead off the inning. So, let's put the winning run on base? Which is what happened btw. It's another example of him putting 'a message' and his personal feelings on a situation over the team winning a baseball game in a pennant race.

The fact that he managed the World Series so badly, that if Daniel Descalso and Jon Jay don't let off the bottom of the 9th in Game 6, we would have ended the World Series with Kyle Lohse at the plate.

The driving away of consistent super stars doesn't help, but that can happen. Especially when you have such strong ego's all over the place. I just don't get the sense that that is going to happen with Matheny.


He was too much of a drama queen when it came to his own personal issues over that of his players. It drove me insane. And he was not this great in-game strategist. In fact, he was toward one of the worst by the time he retired. When he come on as a manager in the 70's, yes, he was above average with his use of the bullpen. But baseball caught up to him after 30 years and he no longer adapted.


I respect Tony, I think he was a good manager overall. But he was given far too much praise for what the reality really presented. The fact that the Reds brawl still brings him so much anger shows the sign of someone with some petty altercations that he can't get over.

I respect Matheny too, but he handles himself differently, and he isn't unnecessarily abrasive.

Comes down to two things for me:

He was regarded by many as this great baseball mind, and he really wasn't.

And he would allow his personal issues with opposing players or managers or situations trump the interests of the team to actually win a game.

Well you two can discuss your LaRussa issues/support. Like I said I was just curious if it was because he was a pretty abrasive manager or if it was just because of Ozzie smith lol

[stlfan544]

I loved La Russa and never questioned a move he made. I gotta kinda dissagree with the notion that La Russa wasn't a good strategist.

The guy pulled moves out of his butt and they worked out. He did things most wouldn't think of doing. I've always respected and loved TLR and always will. I was definitely pissed when we started Royce Clayton over Ozzie though! I remember that from when I was young, I remember asking my older brother why he is doing that. My brother had said that the new manager Tony thinks that the younger clayton fits with the direction the team is going. He dissagreed and I remember saying I don't think that is the right choice at all. Just because a player is older doesn't mean he isn't hands down better than the rest of the players at the position. My brother had also said this manager we have knows what he's doing he used to manage Chicago and Oakland, he even won a world series in Oakland.

[salto]

In regards to TL, I think Jeffy and BPM are on opposite ends of the spectrum. Personally, I would go middle-ground.There were some descisions that were questionable, but worked out and made TL look like a genius, when maybe luck or the baseball-Gods were kind. I think there are too many variables that play into managing to say that statistically one call is bad versus good. Sometime an athletes attitude, physical/mental ability or disability on a given day come into question more than we can know as a fan. This may be where a manager has to go with his gut, which often calls his strategy into question.

May sound a little defensive of TL, actually I respected his calls. Even while I cursed his name when his instinct got it wrong.

Like MM very much. He's somewhat conservative, but as a first year manager, I didn't expect him to be otherwise.

[stlfan544]

I'm on middle ground but definitely think TLR was and is a baseball genius. Sure some were just luck but some were pure planning and moments to where he knew the decisions was going to work to his and his teams advantage.

[stlfan544]

According to mlbtrade rumors we inquired about Manny Parra for left handed relief.

[JoeDirt05]

Jon Heyman ‏@JonHeymanCBS
Hearing keppinger to white sox, 3 yrs

[stlfan544]

Didn't really want him. I think Kozma can do just as much as Keppinger if not more for a cheaper price.

[Tkais9009]

as far as TLR goes, i think he was a managing genius. The man used matchups like no one else. It was annoying that he had players like ozzie and Rolen run out of town, but his upside far outweighs that IMO

as for Keppenger, I would have given him 2 years 10 million. He's definitely not a bad player. I'd take him over Scutaro. Too late for each of them tho so it doesn't matter i guess

[Skippy15]

In regards to TL, I think Jeffy and BPM are on opposite ends of the spectrum. Personally, I would go middle-ground.There were some descisions that were questionable, but worked out and made TL look like a genius, when maybe luck or the baseball-Gods were kind. I think there are too many variables that play into managing to say that statistically one call is bad versus good. Sometime an athletes attitude, physical/mental ability or disability on a given day come into question more than we can know as a fan. This may be where a manager has to go with his gut, which often calls his strategy into question.

May sound a little defensive of TL, actually I respected his calls. Even while I cursed his name when his instinct got it wrong.

Like MM very much. He's somewhat conservative, but as a first year manager, I didn't expect him to be otherwise.

as far as TLR goes, i think he was a managing genius. The man used matchups like no one else. It was annoying that he had players like ozzie and Rolen run out of town, but his upside far outweighs that IMO

as for Keppenger, I would have given him 2 years 10 million. He's definitely not a bad player. I'd take him over Scutaro. Too late for each of them tho so it doesn't matter i guess

I agreed with these statements on LaRussa.

I didn't love everything he did but I think the many good things outweighed the bad things I didnt like.

I do love Mike Matheny also though.