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  1. #61
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    I do like the idea of Bourne but probably not at 5 years

    Shields would be nice too

  2. #62
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    It looks like Berkman wants to play for one more year and I'm a little perplexed why the Cardinals are not interested.

    We'll have a contending team next season and adding a healthy Berkman would add to the offense. I would play him very sparingly and save him for a post season run. He would cost next to nothing and is great for the clubhouse.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by STLforLIFE View Post
    My predictions for next year's roster:

    C: Molina
    1st : Craig
    2nd : Matt Carpenter
    SS : Furcal/Descalso (depends on Furcal's arm)
    3rd : Freese
    Lf: Holliday
    Cf: Bourn
    Rf: Beltran

    Bench : Descalso, Schumaker, Scott Hairston, Adams, Cruz

    Rotation : Waino, Carpenter, Shields, Lynn, Miller

    Bullpen : Rosenthal, Kelly, Mujica, Boggs, Motte, Burnett, Ryan Madson


    Signings : Bourn (5 yrs/ 75 mill), Hairston (1 yr/ 2 mil), Burnett (2/7mil), Madson (1/3 mil)

    Trades : Jay and Cleto for Shields
    Westbrook and Garcia to Rockies for mid-tier prospects
    I don't see any chance in hell we bring in Bourn or trade for shields lol.

    We have so much high talented starting pitching, why trade for more?

    Why bring in Bourn when Jay is extremely productive and so much cheaper?

    Jay is a 3.2 war and played 40 less games than Bourn who is at 6.0 WAR. Jay is a 4.0 war player easily. We have Jay at 4 more years of team control. Bourn is good but worth 15 million a year overall vs Jay getting 3-6 million? No.

    Ryan Madson or anyone for the bullpen is unnecessary except another lefty maybe, if they wanna carry more than 1.

    It will take more than Jay and cleto to get shields in the off season. They will wait till July when his values highest and a desperate team will pay more.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skippy15 View Post
    I don't see any chance in hell we bring in Bourn or trade for shields lol.

    We have so much high talented starting pitching, why trade for more?

    Why bring in Bourn when Jay is extremely productive and so much cheaper?

    Jay is a 3.2 war and played 40 less games than Bourn who is at 6.0 WAR. Jay is a 4.0 war player easily. We have Jay at 4 more years of team control. Bourn is good but worth 15 million a year overall vs Jay getting 3-6 million? No.

    Ryan Madson or anyone for the bullpen is unnecessary except another lefty maybe, if they wanna carry more than 1.

    It will take more than Jay and cleto to get shields in the off season. They will wait till July when his values highest and a desperate team will pay more.
    Agree with everything. Bourne is not only much more expensive, but 3 years older than Jay. jay has shown consistent improvement each season. Bourne will begin showing some decline in production within the next couple of years. The slight advantage in offensive production over Jay isn't worth it. Bourne also strikes out more frequently than Jay.

    Replacing a cost controlled center-fielder who went the entirety of the season without an error is not necessary. Finding more pitching isn't either. They have already been found, their just young. A true second baseman should be the priority in my opinion. Not making-do with a converted outfielder (Schu, Craig) or corner infielder(Craig, Carpenter).

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by salto View Post
    Agree with everything. Bourne is not only much more expensive, but 3 years older than Jay. jay has shown consistent improvement each season. Bourne will begin showing some decline in production within the next couple of years. The slight advantage in offensive production over Jay isn't worth it. Bourne also strikes out more frequently than Jay.

    Replacing a cost controlled center-fielder who went the entirety of the season without an error is not necessary. Finding more pitching isn't either. They have already been found, their just young. A true second baseman should be the priority in my opinion. Not making-do with a converted outfielder (Schu, Craig) or corner infielder(Craig, Carpenter).
    Plus Descalso just gives so little offensive value.

    I think they are in a rough situation. If Wong isn't ready you don't wanna block him by bringing someone in a multi year deal but at the same time is there anyone good enough a replacement over what we have who will come on 1 year?

    Best thing would be if Wong was ready this spring. Plus we may have a gap at the lead off spot wong could fill. Personally I like Jay in the 2 in front of Holliday and Beltran.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skippy15 View Post
    Matheny and Mo said today that Matt Carpenter is to work pretty much this whole off season on learning second base. Today they also announced that there will be no place for Schumaker at 2B next season. This leads me to believe a few situations will happen.

    1. Kolten Wong will be ready. He will become the starting secondman. Carpenter will continue current role as a LF/RF/1B/3B/2B leaving few at bats for Schumaker

    2. Kolten Wong will not be ready. He will need time at AAA. Matt Carpenter will be starting at 2B a majority of the time. Skip will then become a 4th outfielder again. He will get starts in LF/RF/CF and become the teams number 1 pinch hitter.

    3. Kolten Wong is ready. He becomes the starting 2B. Matt carpenter stays in current role plus time at 2B. Skip is traded to another team for a low level prospect, cardinals replace him with right handed hitting bench bat.

    A few things to keep in mind:

    We are losing a team leader with Berkman this offseason. Can we lose another by losing skip?

    Kolten Wong is hitting .385 in 39 at bats in the Arizona fall league. He's taken no walks and struck out 5 times. 1 double. 1 home run.

    We have a very left handed bench. We need to add a solid righty somewhere.
    I like having Schumaker as a 25th man.

    He is versatile and a good guy, very mature, and very responsible. And he is hella cheap. I would rather keep him personally, and leave him on the bench.

    Carpenter has to learn second base first, if it works, then you have to assume he will start, because it will be preferred that Wong has another year in Memphis if that can happen.

    Descalso will get innings there, and you have to think Schumaker will be used there if it is needed.

    I like the way our organization is shaping up very much.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by STLforLIFE View Post
    My predictions for next year's roster:

    C: Molina
    1st : Craig
    2nd : Matt Carpenter
    SS : Furcal/Descalso (depends on Furcal's arm)
    3rd : Freese
    Lf: Holliday
    Cf: Bourn
    Rf: Beltran

    Bench : Descalso, Schumaker, Scott Hairston, Adams, Cruz

    Rotation : Waino, Carpenter, Shields, Lynn, Miller

    Bullpen : Rosenthal, Kelly, Mujica, Boggs, Motte, Burnett, Ryan Madson


    Signings : Bourn (5 yrs/ 75 mill), Hairston (1 yr/ 2 mil), Burnett (2/7mil), Madson (1/3 mil)

    Trades : Jay and Cleto for Shields
    Westbrook and Garcia to Rockies for mid-tier prospects
    Bourn?


    Not happening, and Shields ain't happening.

    We have a loaded outfield, and rotation. We won't be trading or adding those kinds of players, def not. And we have never signed a player like Bourn to that kind of a deal that we didn't have on our team previously.


    And the other signings aren't happening either.

    Hariston or Burnett could happen, not the other two though, and not the trade to the Rockies.

    Sorry, it's your opinion, you are welcomed to it. But it's not happening.

    We will add maybe a left handed reliever, maybe a bench right handed bat that can hopefully play shortstop.

    Matt Adams could be traded.

    And there is your list of things that will happen.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    I like having Schumaker as a 25th man.

    He is versatile and a good guy, very mature, and very responsible. And he is hella cheap. I would rather keep him personally, and leave him on the bench.

    Carpenter has to learn second base first, if it works, then you have to assume he will start, because it will be preferred that Wong has another year in Memphis if that can happen.

    Descalso will get innings there, and you have to think Schumaker will be used there if it is needed.

    I like the way our organization is shaping up very much.
    Agreed. I just would like to see skip get some legit playing time.

    Ideally I'd love to see him and Matt carpenter both get 400 at bats. If carpenter is starting then he will for sure.

    Skip has to get time in LF, RF and CF. I wish he were right handed. That would make him much more valuable because our bench is so left handed

  9. #69
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    Sorry guys, meant to say "My hopeful predictions for next year's roster." That was a list of what I wish the Cardinals would do. I wish they never re-signed Westbrook and never signed Jaime to an extension.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by STLforLIFE View Post
    Sorry guys, meant to say "My hopeful predictions for next year's roster." That was a list of what I wish the Cardinals would do. I wish they never re-signed Westbrook and never signed Jaime to an extension.
    lol that post makes a ton more sense now.

    I also wished they never re-signed Westbrook. I get the idea we needed a durable starter but we have so much pitching already

  11. #71
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    Offseason Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    Matt Carpenter will be playing second base for us next season guys. There is almost no way he isn't given every opportunity to be the starter there next season.


    Shelby Miller will be in the OD rotation barring either injury or a huge regression. He will be there.


    Wong, Garcia, and Taveras will likely be together in Memphis on OD next season. Moz wants to keep them together as long as he can (along with Carlos Martinez). Expect them all up in 2014 though.
    I dont know what anyone else thinks but what about if they moved Freese over to first base and put Matt Carpenter over at 3rd in his original position. First of all, Matt is a better defensive 3rd baseman than Freese and maybe by putting Freese over at 1st it would keep him off the D.L. more often than not and what would be wrong with trying out Allen Craig at 2nd? What would it hurt to experiment with something like that in spring training? Might sound off the wall but what would it hurt after the miserable defense we seen in the playoffs? Just throwing it out there to see everyone else thoughts.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by freydoggy View Post
    I dont know what anyone else thinks but what about if they moved Freese over to first base and put Matt Carpenter over at 3rd in his original position. First of all, Matt is a better defensive 3rd baseman than Freese and maybe by putting Freese over at 1st it would keep him off the D.L. more often than not and what would be wrong with trying out Allen Craig at 2nd? What would it hurt to experiment with something like that in spring training? Might sound off the wall but what would it hurt after the miserable defense we seen in the playoffs? Just throwing it out there to see everyone else thoughts.
    I think the issue is Craig. Craig already hurt his knee once and doesn't move great. I think with Craig there are 2 options. First base or corner outfield. He can run decent but I don't think he will ever be a good enough fielder for 2B.

    Matt carpenter on the other hand is extremely versatile and Definately appears to be able to learn 2B IMO.

    I think with Freese, he is fine at 3B. He's an average third basemen at worst and may be a bit above average. He makes a lot of errors but he also gets to a lot of balls a lot of third basemen don't. Especially when he is coming in to field balls in front of him. That's where many errors are created. He's a plus bat, obviously.

    We aren't a great defensive team but we aren't terrible either. I think Freese at first is Definately an option on some teams but not neccessary here

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by freydoggy View Post
    I dont know what anyone else thinks but what about if they moved Freese over to first base and put Matt Carpenter over at 3rd in his original position. First of all, Matt is a better defensive 3rd baseman than Freese and maybe by putting Freese over at 1st it would keep him off the D.L. more often than not and what would be wrong with trying out Allen Craig at 2nd? What would it hurt to experiment with something like that in spring training? Might sound off the wall but what would it hurt after the miserable defense we seen in the playoffs? Just throwing it out there to see everyone else thoughts.
    haven't all of DF injuries come either while hitting or running the base paths? Not sure moving him would make any sense. Also, I think the Cardinals tried Craig at 2nd early this year (spring training?) and it was a big fail. DD, will get most of the time at 2nd if Carpenter can't cut it. Personally, strengthening the bench would be nice. A solid utility guy in the mold of Punto would be nice. Experience with high baseball IQ, and a solid glove. No idea if anyone available meets that criteria. Schu actually fills this fairly well. Just doesn't offer the best defense and diminished playing time has killed his bat.

    In a perfect world, Wong will come in, own the position and offer a solid bat to the line-up.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by freydoggy View Post
    I dont know what anyone else thinks but what about if they moved Freese over to first base and put Matt Carpenter over at 3rd in his original position. First of all, Matt is a better defensive 3rd baseman than Freese and maybe by putting Freese over at 1st it would keep him off the D.L. more often than not and what would be wrong with trying out Allen Craig at 2nd? What would it hurt to experiment with something like that in spring training? Might sound off the wall but what would it hurt after the miserable defense we seen in the playoffs? Just throwing it out there to see everyone else thoughts.
    The issue is that Craig really can't play second. Hopefully Carpenter can.

    One of the three of them needs to be able to play second, whoever best can, he will play second, and you have to think it's going to be Carpenter at this point.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by salto View Post
    haven't all of DF injuries come either while hitting or running the base paths? Not sure moving him would make any sense. Also, I think the Cardinals tried Craig at 2nd early this year (spring training?) and it was a big fail. DD, will get most of the time at 2nd if Carpenter can't cut it. Personally, strengthening the bench would be nice. A solid utility guy in the mold of Punto would be nice. Experience with high baseball IQ, and a solid glove. No idea if anyone available meets that criteria. Schu actually fills this fairly well. Just doesn't offer the best defense and diminished playing time has killed his bat.

    In a perfect world, Wong will come in, own the position and offer a solid bat to the line-up.
    Fwiw, third basemen do decline very quickly historically. He won't age well, but another 5ish years at third base should be more manageable.

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