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  1. #91
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    Wilt Chamberlain & Michael Jordan



  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by P Harvy View Post
    You try too hard to be funny.
    WAY too hard.

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew32 View Post
    Even his pace adjusted numbers are very impressive and obviously pace adjustment is far from being a perfect thing.
    It does not allow you to perfectly predict what a players numbers would be in different years/eras.

    He was also absurdly efficient in comparison to his era and had the athleticism and skillset to translate and be a highly effective player in any era.

    He was really a player with very few flaws.
    One of the best all around players ever at his position.

    I have him in my Top 15 and honestly I don't think him being at 11 is wrong.


    Absurdly? In what sense was Oscar Robertson absurdly efficient... He was relatively efficient for that time period (no guarantee that would carry over to today's game), but hardly the night and day difference you're making it out to be. Not to mention he played a large volume of minutes, his per 36 minute stats before even being adjusted for pace are hardly worth writing home about. Then you adjust for pace and he comes out to a great player with their being a lot more deserving of that number 11 spot.


    Not to mention the guy missed out on the playoffs so many times that you would have to at least consider that a knock.
    Last edited by Raidaz4Life; 10-24-2012 at 07:08 AM.

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  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knicks21 View Post
    Id say Jordan is pretty overrated, i do believe someone will surpass him one day, I also believe that Lebron does have the potential to pass michael.

    Definitely not the most overrated tho.
    Jordan 6/6 in finals (could've easily been 8/8)
    LeBron 1/3 in finals
    No chance
    Now he can definitely go down as the 2nd greatest player of all time. No question about that, but surpass M.J. never.
    We Rep The City! Not A Borough.
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  5. #95
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    this is harder?

    Michael Jordan, he's the 2nd most overrated human being in the history of the world only behind Jesus Christ
    All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
    - Arthur Schopenauer

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew32 View Post
    Even his pace adjusted numbers are very impressive and obviously pace adjustment is far from being a perfect thing.
    It does not allow you to perfectly predict what a players numbers would be in different years/eras.

    He was also absurdly efficient in comparison to his era and had the athleticism and skillset to translate and be a highly effective player in any era.

    He was really a player with very few flaws.
    One of the best all around players ever at his position.

    I have him in my Top 15 and honestly I don't think him being at 11 is wrong.
    Problem is every time anyone talks about Oscar they mention the fact that he had a season in which he averaged a triple double. In a pace adjusted NBA he would not have gotten close to averaging one even after we take all other variables into consideration. I too have him in my top 15 however.

    I can certainly agree with everything else.

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raidaz4Life View Post
    Absurdly? In what sense was Oscar Robertson absurdly efficient... He was relatively efficient for that time period (no guarantee that would carry over to today's game), but hardly the night and day difference you're making it out to be.
    Ummmmm no. He was right the difference was indeed night and dayish.

    Code:
    Year	LgAvTS%	ORTS%	Diff
    1973-74	0.503	0.502	-0.001
    1972-73	0.498	0.511	+0.013
    1971-72	0.504	0.540	+0.036
    1970-71	0.500	0.563	+0.063
    1969-70	0.511	0.577	+0.066
    1968-69	0.491	0.579	+0.088
    1967-68	0.498	0.588	+0.090
    1966-67	0.493	0.583	+0.090
    1965-66	0.487	0.563	+0.076
    1964-65	0.479	0.561	+0.082
    1963-64	0.485	0.576	+0.091
    1962-63	0.493	0.588	+0.095
    1961-62	0.479	0.554	+0.075
    1960-61	0.469	0.555	+0.086
    That was a monumental difference. You'd be hard pressed to find much more efficient players relative to their era than Oscar Robertson.

    Not to mention he played a large volume of minutes, his per 36 minute stats before even being adjusted for pace are hardly worth writing home about
    Being able to play a large volume of minutes in a high paced environment bodes well for ones endurance and perceived athletic ability so IMO you can see it as both a minus and a plus.

    Then you adjust for pace and he comes out to a great player with their being a lot more deserving of that number 11 spot.
    I can dig this.

    Not to mention the guy missed out on the playoffs so many times that you would have to at least consider that a knock.
    Well as in everything we have to apply context. I think there is more to look at than just the fact that Oscar missed the post season for about 4 seasons in his prime. We gotta look further than just Oscar himself.
    Last edited by Swashcuff; 10-29-2012 at 11:12 AM.

  8. #98
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    Lol seems like people are just saying dumb stuff so they can get a reply. But then again I'm not even old enough to say anything about most of these players lol.

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by theheatles View Post
    this is harder?

    Michael Jordan, he's the 2nd most overrated human being in the history of the world only behind Jesus Christ
    Dude you are an *** for saying this. Because you have no freaking idea what you are talking about with that.
    "Talent wins games, but teamwork and intelligence wins championships."
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    Thanks MJ-Bulls for the picture.

  10. #100
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    Big O...and it's not even close.
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by justinnum1
    Wade will be a lot better next season now that he got knee surgery. Hate on. - 7/31/2012

  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swashcuff View Post
    Ummmmm no. He was right the difference was indeed night and dayish.

    Code:
    Year	LgAvTS%	ORTS%	Diff
    1973-74	0.503	0.502	-0.001
    1972-73	0.498	0.511	+0.013
    1971-72	0.504	0.540	+0.460
    1970-71	0.5	0.563	+0.063
    1969-70	0.511	0.577	+0.066
    1968-69	0.491	0.579	+0.088
    1967-68	0.498	0.588	+0.090
    1966-67	0.493	0.583	+0.090
    1965-66	0.487	0.563	+0.076
    1964-65	0.479	0.561	+0.082
    1963-64	0.485	0.576	+0.091
    1962-63	0.493	0.588	+0.095
    1961-62	0.479	0.554	+0.075
    1960-61	0.469	0.555	+0.086
    That was a monumental difference. You'd be hard pressed to find much more efficient players relative to their era than Oscar Robertson.






    Well as in everything we have to apply context. I think there is more to look at than just the fact that Oscar missed the post season for about 4 seasons in his prime. We gotta look further than just Oscar himself.
    I suppose efficiency numbers really were that much lower for that time period, but then again there is no way he holds that same night and day efficiency when playing in the same leagues that countless other hall of famers have played in.


    I don't have anything personal against Oscar Robertson, I actually like him as a player. However a lot of his credibility as a borderline top 10 player of all time (I hear second best PG of all time thrown around a lot) comes from the illusion that is his 1961-62 season. A feat that he only accomplished once and isn't nearly as impressive as people make it out to be. Also, once again spin it however which way you want to, but his lack of playoff success really should knock him back a few spots on people's lists.


    I would say he is a borderline top 20 player, but even then there are a lot of players ranked after 20 on the PSD list that I would take career wise over Oscar Robertson.

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  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raidaz4Life View Post
    I suppose efficiency numbers really were that much lower for that time period, but then again there is no way he holds that same night and day efficiency when playing in the same leagues that countless other hall of famers have played in.
    That's presumptuous. What Andrew stated was fact. None of us can defiantly state what the difference would be had Oscar played in this era but make no bones about it Oscar did indeed play against HOFers in his time and was an all time great regardless. Relative to era he was one of the most efficient players of all time.

    Saying Oscar certainly won't be able to maintain that level of efficiency is basically like saying Shaq would not have been able to play in Oscar's time because of the pace and he'd break down due to wear and tear on his body.

    I don't have anything personal against Oscar Robertson, I actually like him as a player. However a lot of his credibility as a borderline top 10 player of all time (I hear second best PG of all time thrown around a lot) comes from the illusion that is his 1961-62 season. A feat that he only accomplished once and isn't nearly as impressive as people make it out to be. Also, once again spin it however which way you want to, but his lack of playoff success really should knock him back a few spots on people's lists.
    It surely isn't as impressive and people wrongly define his career by it without really applying the proper context. Think of how different Oscar would be viewed if he played for a team such as the Lakers instead of Jerry West.

    I would say he is a borderline top 20 player, but even then there are a lot of players ranked after 20 on the PSD list that I would take career wise over Oscar Robertson.
    I would say borderline top 15 but if someone puts him in there I'd take it. I think Oscar is a player whose career needs to be put into perspective whenever comparing to other top 20 all time greats.

  13. #103
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    Wilt
    Quote Originally Posted by Norm View Post
    I dropped my phone in the toilet last night which ruined my week. If that makes you feel better.
    ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww!

  14. #104
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    Jordan.

  15. #105
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    1st to me its Bill russell. I think that David Robinson, Shaq, Kareem, Hakeem, Duncan, KG, Moses all out play him if they would of been able to play against him.

    2nd Iverson is underated. Stockton is not better than him. Ask yourself this question. If you replace a prime Iverson with stockton, do you think that the Jazz win a ring with Prime Iverson, Prime Malone, Prime Hornacek? I think they win a ring, at least when Jordan left, but I think they could of maybe beat the bulls.

    If you really remember watching Iverson, then you know that when it comes to trying stop a player 1 on 1 the order in NBA history goes...

    Shaq
    Jordan
    Iverson
    Lebron
    Kobe

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