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  1. #1
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    Imagine Roman Gonzalez beating the living piss out of Margarito

    To get an idea of how crazy Pacquiao's demolition of Tony Margarito was. The Pacman started his career at 106 pounds. Roman G at 105 pounds. Now could you ever imagine Gonzalez climbing up to 150 pounds and giving a physical beating to Tony Margarito like that?

    I remember before that fight happened all my friends and myself thought that would be the end of Pacquiao. Margarito was gonna kill him. And in a way it was. Pacquiao's prime ended with that fight. He was never the same after that.

    That's what so crazy about that fight. Even though Margarito was a little past his prime nobody that good and tough should be beaten that badly by a guy who started at 106 pounds.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by sheesh View Post
    To get an idea of how crazy Pacquiao's demolition of Tony Margarito was. The Pacman started his career at 106 pounds. Roman G at 105 pounds. Now could you ever imagine Gonzalez climbing up to 150 pounds and giving a physical beating to Tony Margarito like that?

    I remember before that fight happened all my friends and myself thought that would be the end of Pacquiao. Margarito was gonna kill him. And in a way it was. Pacquiao's prime ended with that fight. He was never the same after that.

    That's what so crazy about that fight. Even though Margarito was a little past his prime nobody that good and tough should be beaten that badly by a guy who started at 106 pounds.
    I think we'll look back on Pacquaio and realize his greatness in the future. Even now, he's a true welterweight (140lb), he put up a competitive fight at 147lb against the so called best fighter of our generation (Floyd) even with a torn shoulder.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevin13697 View Post
    I think we'll look back on Pacquaio and realize his greatness in the future. Even now, he's a true welterweight (140lb), he put up a competitive fight at 147lb against the so called best fighter of our generation (Floyd) even with a torn shoulder.
    Well I agree that he's great. I was just trying to put into perspective a guy who came from light flyweight to light middleweight and punished somebody like Margarito.

    Also Pacquiao if had chosen could probably have stayed at 122-130 his whole career. The only time he jumped divisions because his body outgrew the division was when he went from 112 to 122.

    He jumped to 126 to fight Barrera.

    Jumped to 130 to fight Morales.

    Jumped to 135 because he cleaned out 122-130.

    Jumped to 140 to fight Hatton.

    Jumped to 145 to fight Cotto and DLH.

    Jumped to 150 to fight Margarito.

    He never once moved up in weight because he having trouble making weight, except for his jump to 122.

    And it's crazy because he was a much better fighter at 122-130 than he was at the higher weights. Well I actually that makes sense. But it shows the courage and desire for legacy to move up when you don't have to.

  4. #4
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    Gonzalez is naturally smaller than Pacquiao though.

    Pacquiao's climb isn't honestly any different from other guys in the sport. DLH was at 115 as a 16 year old amatuer and got up to 160 division. Floyd started at 108 as a 16 year old in the amateur and made his way up to 154. Roy Jones Jr was at 119 pounds as a 15 year old and 139 pounds as a 16 year old. That's why I think the whole argument of a guy moving up in weight holds little water.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    Gonzalez is naturally smaller than Pacquiao though.

    Pacquiao's climb isn't honestly any different from other guys in the sport. DLH was at 115 as a 16 year old amatuer and got up to 160 division. Floyd started at 108 as a 16 year old in the amateur and made his way up to 154. Roy Jones Jr was at 119 pounds as a 15 year old and 139 pounds as a 16 year old. That's why I think the whole argument of a guy moving up in weight holds little water.
    Even as a grown man Pacquiao was fighting at 122. When he was 24 he was still having absolutely no trouble making 122. He only left because he cleaned out the divison and wanted to fight Barrera.

    As a teenager he became lineal flyweight champ after scoring a knockout in a fight where he was losing pretty much every round. But outgrew the division.

    In my previous post I acknowledge that Pacquiao had no choice, but to move to 122. After that though he never had any trouble making weight. He just moved up for legacy.

    When a guy moves up in weight when he's not having trouble making weight that means he's giving up size and fighting naturally bigger men.

    It's crazy, but Barrera the featherweight was a naturally bigger man or at the very least about the same size as Manny.

  6. #6
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    Titles in 8 different weight classes holds more weight then any other fighter.
    Others have had similar production but none like Pacquaio.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by sheesh View Post
    Even as a grown man Pacquiao was fighting at 122. When he was 24 he was still having absolutely no trouble making 122. He only left because he cleaned out the divison and wanted to fight Barrera.

    As a teenager he became lineal flyweight champ after scoring a knockout in a fight where he was losing pretty much every round. But outgrew the division.

    In my previous post I acknowledge that Pacquiao had no choice, but to move to 122. After that though he never had any trouble making weight. He just moved up for legacy.

    When a guy moves up in weight when he's not having trouble making weight that means he's giving up size and fighting naturally bigger men.

    It's crazy, but Barrera the featherweight was a naturally bigger man or at the very least about the same size as Manny.
    Yea but then that's genetics. He had the body frame for it, even if he wasn't using it up completely. He was rehydrating like 15-20 pounds in those lower weights still. Gonzalez doesn't have the frame for it. A lot of guys could have stayed at lower weights too in they wanted. Pacquiao could have been a 135-140 fighter in his mid 20s. That's what his fight night weight normally was when he was fighting in the 122-126 division.

    He had the body frame for it but guess he just wanted to stay at lower weights since that's where the money was. Still impressive feat, but I think a lot of people miss the fact that his change in weight is not out of the ordinary.
    Last edited by Raps08-09 Champ; 08-10-2015 at 11:20 PM.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    Yea but then that's genetics. He had the body frame for it, even if he wasn't using it up completely. He was rehydrating like 15-20 pounds in those lower weights still. Gonzalez doesn't have the frame for it. A lot of guys could have stayed at lower weights too in they wanted. Pacquiao could have been a 135-140 fighter in his mid 20s. That's what his fight night weight normally was when he was fighting in the 122-126 division.

    He had the body frame for it but guess he just wanted to stay at lower weights since that's where the money was. Still impressive feat, but I think a lot of people miss the fact that his change in weight is not out of the ordinary.
    In boxing, fighting in lower weight classes is an advantage. If you can make lower weight classes without draining your body then that's where you should be fighting.

    Show me one link where Pacquiao was having trouble making weight besides 112? Just one link!

    He had the frame for it you say??? Well he has a 28 inch waist. And he's 5'5". He wasn't tall. He wasn't a naturally thick guy either. Even against Barrera at featherweight you could tell that Barrera was the naturally larger man. You could tell through the torso he was just a thicker and bigger guy.

    He kept moving up because he was kicking every ones ***.

    Also with the rehydration thing that is with their clothes and shoes on. The unofficial weights are what they are. Unofficial. After three meals and clothes on I weight 7 pounds more at night than I do before I hit the shower 2 minutes after waking up.
    Last edited by sheesh; 08-11-2015 at 12:04 AM.

  9. #9
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    Not really sure what your point is here...

    All I said was that the basis of this thread is meaningless because Pacquiao and Gonzalez are different fighters at different body sizes.

    Pacquiao fighting at 106 is different because he was not filling out his body compared to Gonzalez. There's a reason the unofficial weight, which everyone in boxing knows is your "real" weight, is a much higher difference for Pacquiao than the difference between Gonzalez's unofficial and weigh in weight.

    Pacquiao is 5'6 and a half (a solid height for WW). He was in his early 20's (I think he was still a teen too) at the 112 division while Gonzalez is 5'3 112 fighter while already being 28th years old. Pacquiao was already at 147 by his 28th birthday (because you naturally get bigger as you get older). Pacquiao's increase in weight clearly shows that him at 112 is not comparable to Gonzalez's because Pacquiao is a bigger fighter, even though they both fought in a similar division.

    That's like comparing De La Hoya and Roy Jones Jr because they both touched the 140 division in their careers with Oscar in his mid 20s while RJJ in his teens and telling people to imagine Oscar winning a LHW or HW title. There's just no comparison there.

    In short, you just can't make the comparison. Pacquiao had the body to be a natural 140ish pounder (which he already admitted was his natural fighting weight) from the beginning and just stayed in the lower divisions. Gonzalez probably maxes out at 120ish pounds.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    Not really sure what your point is here...

    All I said was that the basis of this thread is meaningless because Pacquiao and Gonzalez are different fighters at different body sizes.

    Pacquiao fighting at 106 is different because he was not filling out his body compared to Gonzalez. There's a reason the unofficial weight, which everyone in boxing knows is your "real" weight, is a much higher difference for Pacquiao than the difference between Gonzalez's unofficial and weigh in weight.

    Pacquiao is 5'6 and a half (a solid height for WW). He was in his early 20's (I think he was still a teen too) at the 112 division while Gonzalez is 5'3 112 fighter while already being 28th years old. Pacquiao was already at 147 by his 28th birthday (because you naturally get bigger as you get older). Pacquiao's increase in weight clearly shows that him at 112 is not comparable to Gonzalez's because Pacquiao is a bigger fighter, even though they both fought in a similar division.

    That's like comparing De La Hoya and Roy Jones Jr because they both touched the 140 division in their careers with Oscar in his mid 20s while RJJ in his teens and telling people to imagine Oscar winning a LHW or HW title. There's just no comparison there.

    In short, you just can't make the comparison. Pacquiao had the body to be a natural 140ish pounder (which he already admitted was his natural fighting weight) from the beginning and just stayed in the lower divisions. Gonzalez probably maxes out at 120ish pounds.
    Dude your point about size is off base IMO.

    Everybody can increase their size. If Gonzalez wanted to get bigger he could.

    Just eat more food. Everybody has the frame to get bigger. All you got to do is eat more.

  11. #11
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    Lol its nowhere near that simple in the sport of boxing. Bodyframe plays a big difference in your ability to put on pounds while having effectiveness. Which is why I said you cant make the comparison because Pacquiao is different than Gonzalez. Thats lije if I said Algieri can be a heavyweight because Tyson was a HW and Algieri is taller. I jusr cant tell Algieri to eat lota of food and still expeft him to be a boxer at that level.
    Last edited by Raps08-09 Champ; 08-11-2015 at 06:10 PM.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    Lol its nowhere near that simple in the sport of boxing. Bodyframe plays a big difference in your ability to put on pounds while having effectiveness. Which is why I said you cant make the comparison because Pacquiao is different than Gonzalez.
    Gaining weight is that simple. More food means more weight.

    Yes if you decide to eat your way to a new weight class you lose effectiveness.

    Pacquiao lost effectiveness with more weight. He was better at 122-130.

    Much better. He's never even had a KO at 147 or higher.

    So he gorged himself and gained weight.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by sheesh View Post
    Gaining weight is that simple. More food means more weight.

    Yes if you decide to eat your way to a new weight class you lose effectiveness.

    Pacquiao lost effectiveness with more weight. He was better at 122-130.

    Much better. He's never even had a KO at 147 or higher.

    So he gorged himself and gained weight.
    That's what I literally have been saying...

    Genetics plays a factor in your ability to gain weight while being effective. Which is why I said you can't make the comparison. Pacquiao's effectiveness at higher weight is possible because he has the genetics to do so. Which is not the same for Gonzalez. Gonzalez doesn't have that same ability to gain weight while factoring in the sport of boxing. If he wanted to be a body builder, I'm sure Gonzalez can gain weight. Not the same for boxing..

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    That's what I literally have been saying...

    Genetics plays a factor in your ability to gain weight while being effective. Which is why I said you can't make the comparison. Pacquiao's effectiveness at higher weight is possible because he has the genetics to do so. Which is not the same for Gonzalez. Gonzalez doesn't have that same ability to gain weight while factoring in the sport of boxing. If he wanted to be a body builder, I'm sure Gonzalez can gain weight. Not the same for boxing..
    Would Gonzalez lose power if he moved up? Would he lose speed? Would he b lose stamina? Would his chin get worse?

    The answer is yes.

    Ask these same questions about pacquiao. The answer is yes.

    Pacman put himself at a deliberate disadvantage by gorging himself to gain weight so he could be more effective against way bigger men naturally.

    That's what's impressive.

  15. #15
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    I'm not disagreeing with you that it's impressive. It is. I understand Pacquiao is putting himself against bigger fighters. I'm just saying that Pacquiao's body is not the same as Gonzalez's so the comparison doesn't make any sense.

    Gonalez moving up to WW is much different than Pacquiao. Pacquiao actually had the ability to fill out a WW body comfortably (in terms of boxing) while Gonzalez probably can't go up to the 140s (in the sport of boxing that is). That's the difference I'm trying to point out. Pacquiao was weighing in over 140 pounds since his days at the 126 division. Gonzalez has not shown the same type of indication, meaning you can't make the comparison.

    Back when weigh ins were the same day, Pacquiao would have been fighting in the WW since like 2005-2006 since there would have been no time to dry your body to the bone. I understand it was a "David vs Goliath" type of match since Margarito was so big, but the comparison with Gonzalez doesn't hold any water at all. Pacquiao after rehydration fought Margarito weighing in over the WW limit. The gap between Pacquiao and most WW/MW is closer than the gap between Gonzalez and those guys. It really just doesn't make sense.

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