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View Poll Results: Which hypothetical QB was better

Voters
19. You may not vote on this poll
  • QB A

    8 42.11%
  • QB B

    11 57.89%
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  1. #1
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    Which hypothetical QB had the better day?

    Which of these hypothetical QBs had the better day?

    This has nothing to do with any real world QB. I'm just curious to see which QB the posters on PSD believe played better. I'm not sure whether I should include the QB rating or not but I think I will just to see what the influence of it is. But first, look at the raw stats and the little description of the game and choose. Then look at the QB rating and tell me if your opinion changes or if it doesn't. Finally, I'll include another stat at the end and tell me if you agree with that stat or still would stick to your original assumption.

    First, assume that both running backs gain the exact same yardage. So basically, both running games are equal. Also, the talent of the receivers are equal, it's played in the same stadium against the same defense, the crowd noise is the exact same, etc. Basically, all else created equal.

    If you're wondering how that happens, consider this: QB B's team runs the ball throughout the game, trying to maintain some balance while QB A's team gains most of their rush yards in the 4th quarter when they have a lead and are trying to kill the clock. As you can probably guess, most of QB A's passing yards come in the first 3 quarters.

    Also, this is a bit of an extreme situation as I'm not sure that these stat lines are all that likely but its an example just to see the way PSD thinks/evaluates QBs.

    QB A
    29-39 for 301 yards, 0 TDs, 0 INTs

    QB A is 9-10 on 3rd down conversions. In addition, he throws 4 different passes to the 3 yard line where the receiver is tackled and the offense decides to run the ball in (because most teams typically do that) rather then giving him a 3 yard passing TD. Or simply put, he doesn't get any passing TDs but he's hugely involved in driving the team down the field. 9 of his incompletions come on 1st and 2nd down but he converts the necessary 3rd downs.

    Now imagine you maybe didn't watch the game and just see the stat sheet instead of that little description that 4 of his passes went to the 1 or 2 yard or wherever. You just see his attempts, completions, yards, 0 TDs. Does your opinion change?

    Finally QB A's team scores 41 points.

    QB B
    34-39 for 360 yards, 4 TDs 0 INTs

    QB B is only 5-10 on 3rd down conversions and his team punts the ball 5 times. However, he passes for all 4 of his teams TDs as his team scores 28 points. He is also 24-24 on 1st and 2nd down.

    Team (QB) A wins the game 41-28.

    Which QB had the better game?











    Now after you've initially chose which QB you prefer, QB A has a 96.2 QB rating while QB B has a 139.3 QB rating. Does that change your opinion?











    Finally, I tell you that QB A contributed 21 expected points added to his team (with the rest of the points being divided up among the running backs, special teams, defense). QB B contributed 10 expected points added to his team, with again, the rest of the points being divied up among RBs, special teams and the defense. So QB A contributed more expected points to his team. Does your opinion of which QB played better change? Did QB B still play better because of his higher passer rating/more yards/more TDs or was QB A better?
    Last edited by PatsSoxKnicks; 11-13-2012 at 06:08 PM.
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  2. #2
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    Holy hell, too much to think about.

    Carson, trust me, even if you turn out to be a really bad QB, BDawk4Prez will always defend you on PSD.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by BDawk4Prez View Post
    Holy hell, too much to think about.
    Well for me, it's an easy decision which QB I'd take but I'm curious what the rest of PSD thinks.
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  4. #4
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    I'll take the 3rd downs and the points. I don't really care how much TD's are thrown for (unless it's Fantasy Football) as long as my team is moving the ball and scoring.

    Kinda funny because this sort of relates to Luck. He moves the ball down the field and gets points, but hasn't really thrown alot of TDs this year.


  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddler The Gr8 View Post
    I'll take the 3rd downs and the points. I don't really care how much TD's are thrown for (unless it's Fantasy Football) as long as my team is moving the ball and scoring.

    Kinda funny because this sort of relates to Luck. He moves the ball down the field and gets points, but hasn't really thrown alot of TDs this year.
    Yeah it does sort of relate to Luck (I actually didn't even have him in mind when I made the thread). But its not just him, there are plenty of QBs that fall in both categories.
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  6. #6
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    Qb a. I like epa.

  7. #7
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    yea, just mentioned him because I'm a Colts fan


  8. #8
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    Qb b as sort of been rodgers this year. Hes not been terrible on 3rd down, but he hasnt been one of the best either(if I remember correctly)

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddler The Gr8 View Post
    yea, just mentioned him because I'm a Colts fan
    Yeah understandable. He kind of is the poster boy for QB A though and honestly, I'd have no problem with that type of QB (I mean unless I had him on a fantasy team ).
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  10. #10
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    QB A sounds eerily similar to the type of game Stafford had against the Jaguars a few weeks ago (although not quite as drastic with the shortness of the TDs)

    Got the team into good scoring position on each of the 4 TD drives:
    #1-Leshoure runs for a 7 yard TD.
    #2-38 yard pass down to the 1 yard line, Leshoure runs for a 1 yard TD.
    #3-Leshoure runs for an 8 yard TD.
    #4-Bell runs for a 10 yard 10.

    When passing on 3rd down, he was successful on the conversion 7 out of 9 times.

    His final stat line looked fairly average, just like QB A in your example: 22-33, 285 yards, 0 TD/0 INT, 94 QBR


    ....Just thought it was funny how close I feel your example mirrored Stafford's game......That being said, I choose QB A.

    And I KNOW people are going to hate this but this is where I feel ESPN's total QBR is really good. Despite his average traditional statline for the jaguars game, the total QBR stat gave Stafford a total of 92.4 (which is an excellent game), which I feel did a good job of mirroring what my eye test said about his performance.....true also in other games for Stafford (specifically last year) where he put up great traditional stats but the eye test told me he didn't really play as well as those traditional stats indicated. Look at his total QBR for those "big traditional stat" games that werent as good as the stats looked and BOOM, usually an average to low total QBR which again matches up with my eye test.
    Last edited by FortDetroit; 11-13-2012 at 02:55 AM.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by FortDetroit View Post
    QB A sounds eerily similar to the type of game Stafford had against the Jaguars a few weeks ago (although not quite as drastic with the shortness of the TDs)

    Got the team into good scoring position on each of the 4 TD drives:
    #1-Leshoure runs for a 7 yard TD.
    #2-38 yard pass down to the 1 yard line, Leshoure runs for a 1 yard TD.
    #3-Leshoure runs for an 8 yard TD.
    #4-Bell runs for a 10 yard 10.

    When passing on 3rd down, he was successful on the conversion 7 out of 9 times.

    His final stat line looked fairly average, just like QB A in your example: 22-33, 285 yards, 0 TD/0 INT, 94 QBR


    ....Just thought it was funny how close I feel your example mirrored Stafford's game......That being said, I choose QB A.
    LOL, wow. That is really close- 16 yards off and QB A had 1 less incompletion.

    And I thought I failed miserably at providing a real life example

    Quote Originally Posted by FortDetroit View Post
    And I KNOW people are going to hate this but this is where I feel ESPN's total QBR is really good. Despite his average traditional statline for the jaguars game, the total QBR stat gave Stafford a total of 92.4 (which is an excellent game), which I feel did a good job of mirroring what my eye test said about his performance.....true also in other games for Stafford (specifically last year) where he put up great traditional stats but the eye test told me he didn't really play as well as those traditional stats indicated. Look at his total QBR for those "big traditional stat" games that werent as good as the stats looked and BOOM, usually an average to low total QBR which again matches up with my eye test.
    I'm not going to lie, I actually think ESPN's Total QBR stat is pretty good. However, I've also done a ton more reading into it and well, I may as well come out and say it, I know the person/team who developed the stat and have seen some of the calculations (such as the split credit between the WR and QB- it's done based on the YAC and they divide credit differently for outside the hashmarks vs. inside). The biggest problem people have with the stat is with the whole clutch weighted part but I'm pretty sure that no one knows that it's capped. As in, your only going to get at most 3x the EPA for one play in the 4th quarter. Some may disagree with that but they're trying to incorporate the WPA aspect into it so you don't end up crediting losing QBs for accumulating EPA on prevent defenses.

    Anyways, I could honestly go more into it and tried to when it first came out but gave up considering the widespread hate towards the stat. Honestly, a ton of people hate it because its from ESPN. The issues with the whole clutch thing are certainly legitimate but again, by capping it, you don't get the massive effects that some think. It's also still got a pretty high correlation to EPA.

    At the very least though, I think people should use EPA rather than total yards etc. Ultimately, what matters most in football is how many points you scored. A ton of QBs accumulate garbage yards (and even garbage EPA...) when the game is out of hand. There is an interesting line though because you are trying to score every time you have the ball (although you could argue that when you're up big in the 4th, you're just trying to run out the clock, literally). And as for the passing TDs, if you pass for 99 yards on the drive and your receiver gets tackled at the 1 and your RB runs it in, do you really deserve to get knocked for that? You did most of the leg work.
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  12. #12
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    Well QB A because his team did work and while he didn't put the points on the board he played a near flawless game. No mistakes leading succesful drives is more important than TD's.

  13. #13
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    QB A has the better team, QB B appears to be the better QB.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by LegendX View Post
    QB A has the better team, QB B appears to be the better QB.
    Perfect way to sum it up.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by LegendX View Post
    QB A has the better team, QB B appears to be the better QB.
    This is what I thought as well.

    QB B to have a pretty prolific day. 87% completion rate while not turning the ball over.

    You see his 3rd down passing which is 5-10 which means he was 24-24 on likely 1st/2nd downs.

    I think that's pretty ****in' remarkable.

    Better individual performance would likely go to QB B.

    But overall I'd go with QB A's result.

    The end result of a game isn't indicative of the QB play to an extent. You didn't apply the element of that team's defense, (looks like QB B plays on a pretty ****** team without a run game or any semblance of a defense).

    But to stick to the OP, I go with QB B.

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