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  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halladay View Post
    Okay, here's the problem. People base things off size and size alone. Watch Kadri play, he may be smaller than most but he doesn't play that way. He's a feisty player, a hell of a lot more physical than MPS. This is where the problem lies for me. There's being average sized, like MPS is, and playing like it, and then there's guys who are Kadri's size and don't play like it. Kadri gets in your face, MPS doesn't. MPS has the speed and not much hands to show for it, this has been his issue since draft day. He was drafted based on speed, Kadri was drafted based on amazing hands. So far, Kadri is ahead of MPS in development. Yes, MPS is the better all-round player but you don't draft a guy that high to be a bottom 6 forward, you draft them to be offensive first and foremost. They are similar in points but both leave much to be desired. I still take Kadri over MPS but to put MPS miles ahead seems to be a ridiculous notion IMO. He hasn't proven anything to me.
    But what you're not being realistic about is what kind of contribution a borderline prospect like Kadri could make at the NHL level, let alone on an already elite team. He's not even top 6 material on the Leafs yet, let alone on a contender. Looks like a pretty wide gulf for him to cross.

  2. #152
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    End of the day Kadri and MPS aren't anywhere near where their teams hoped they would be at this stage of their development.

  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halladay View Post
    Okay, here's the problem. People base things off size and size alone. Watch Kadri play, he may be smaller than most but he doesn't play that way. He's a feisty player, a hell of a lot more physical than MPS. This is where the problem lies for me. There's being average sized, like MPS is, and playing like it, and then there's guys who are Kadri's size and don't play like it. Kadri gets in your face, MPS doesn't. MPS has the speed and not much hands to show for it, this has been his issue since draft day. He was drafted based on speed, Kadri was drafted based on amazing hands. So far, Kadri is ahead of MPS in development. Yes, MPS is the better all-round player but you don't draft a guy that high to be a bottom 6 forward, you draft them to be offensive first and foremost. They are similar in points but both leave much to be desired. I still take Kadri over MPS but to put MPS miles ahead seems to be a ridiculous notion IMO. He hasn't proven anything to me.
    MPS is a fast and sizeable player with a good shot, who happens to be log jammed behind a roster filled with skill up front. I don't think you're giving him much credit. I'm also not basing it on the players size but rather on the fact that the average player in the NHL is much bigger than Kadri and while there are smaller players playing in the NHL they are the exception not the rule and there's a ton of highly skilled forwards stuck in the AHL or overseas for that very reason. So I guess what I'm saying and it's no comment or being an Azz to the Leafs but they aren't exactly one of the top teams in the league(right now atleast, I've been there for many years so I'm not Crahping on them), they need offense and skill up front and Kadri has been given 50+ games to show he can contribute and yet he really hasn't been able to stick with the club and managed only 8 goals, for a guy with what you are saying is an elite skilled player he's really not setting the world on fire in the NHL. He didn't show me any of that fire or physicality you were talking about, he was relatively weak looking against the NHL players. Before you tell me he was on the 3rd line or whatever well that's where you always start off, not too many teams bring a guy up and displace their first liner for a number of reasons ( to get the player used to the speed difference of the NHL game and to get them familiar with the system the team employs for example) but when you get there you have to show that you belong on one of the other lines, it's great to be the Leafs #1 pick but that doesn't mean anything when the puck drops. I guess what I'm saying is that Kadri has to create a spot there for himself, if he's not able to displace guys on the top two lines on a team that was craving offense then he has to be a 3rd or 4th line guy, something that he's seems uninterested in, so that leaves him in the AHL. We had the same thing in New York with Mats Zuccerello Aasen, he's got more skill than anyone on our team but he can't play well enough to displace Gaborik, Stepan, Callahan, Richards etc and he's not a 3rd line guy so he's not here anymore. I agree with you, Kadri is skilled, but he hasn't proven that he's willing to do what it takes to get to the next level. It's mind boggling to me that a guy in his position in Toronto, being a guy that really has the best chance to make the Leafs, on a team looking for offense, shows up to an AHL camp in the worst shape of any of the players there, and that's more of the reason I'd take MPS over Kadri right now than anything. I think there's a serious sense of entitlement surrounding Kadri right now. No offense but if he can't crack the Leafs lineup as a top 6 forward he's really of no use to the Canucks lineup that has been close to the top of the league for a while now. That's just my opinion.

  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by ink View Post
    But what you're not being realistic about is what kind of contribution a borderline prospect like Kadri could make at the NHL level, let alone on an already elite team. He's not even top 6 material on the Leafs yet, let alone on a contender. Looks like a pretty wide gulf for him to cross.
    Tell me, who's spot would Kadri take on the wings: Lupul,Kessel,MacArthur,Kulemin. Are you going to move one of these guys to the third line for a rookie? This is what people outside of Toronto don't get. They don't want to take the Seguin approach of sheltered minutes playing in the bottom 6. That's not the philosophy, right or wrong. He's being given top minutes in the AHL under a great coach. What's the rush here? that's what I don't get. And why do people assume the Leafs are some crummy offense? do people not realize the Leafs aren't half bad in the scoring department? that has never been the problem, it's defense and goaltending that has been.

    2011/2012-Leafs were tenth in goals for, 29th in goals against.

  5. #155
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    Bsi-I'd love to respond, put some spaces in there and I will haha. I don't want another PSD related seizure.

  6. #156
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    I personally believe if this happens the deal centers around Bozak and Reimer and then you probably add some gravy on top of that.

    If the JVR to center experiment works it could open up a spot on the top 6 for Kadri to step in on the 2nd line with Grabs and MacArthur and Colborne could find a spot on the 3rd with Frattin and Kulemin.

    It wouldn't be your traditional 4th line but a Connolly/Steckel/Lombardi would be pretty solid and beneficial to our special teams and they'd also provide good line fillers when inevitable injuries happen.

    Vancouver gets a back up goalie and a third line center and a couple adds. Not sure if this gets it done but it makes the most sense from the Leafs perspective.
    Last edited by Miltstar; 10-31-2012 at 10:33 AM.

  7. #157
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    Why would the Canucks want Reimer when they have Eddie Lack?

  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pfeifer View Post
    Why would the Canucks want Reimer when they have Eddie Lack?
    Exactly. Again and again I just don't see a fit. A struggling team will benefit from a great goalie like Luongo but a contending team will get nothing out of the struggling team's assets. Especially when 1. the struggling team is very short on talent, and 2. the contending team has a surplus of 3rd line calibre players already (many of whom were ironically drafted by the Burke/Nonis regime).

    Doing a deal with the Leafs is revisiting the past for the Canucks. It's a drafting philosophy that Vancouver badly needs to escape, not revert back to.

  9. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halladay View Post
    Tell me, who's spot would Kadri take on the wings: Lupul,Kessel,MacArthur,Kulemin. Are you going to move one of these guys to the third line for a rookie? This is what people outside of Toronto don't get. They don't want to take the Seguin approach of sheltered minutes playing in the bottom 6. That's not the philosophy, right or wrong. He's being given top minutes in the AHL under a great coach. What's the rush here? that's what I don't get. And why do people assume the Leafs are some crummy offense? do people not realize the Leafs aren't half bad in the scoring department? that has never been the problem, it's defense and goaltending that has been.

    2011/2012-Leafs were tenth in goals for, 29th in goals against.
    That's the point: he can't even beat out players like MacArthur and Kulemin. Yes, if he's such a valuable prospect, he should have asserted his place above them on the depth chart a few seasons ago. Why hasn't he? Because he's a borderline talent. Not just picking on him though; Burke hasn't produced much at all with his moves since becoming GM of the Leafs.

  10. #160
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    Luongo for Komisarek and Frattin

  11. #161
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    So Luongo won't get much in return because of his contract but the Canucks have to take on the albatross of Komisarik to get Frattin? If they take on that contract than Luongo would have to get full value in the rest of the deal cause that is not salary they would take for nothing.

  12. #162
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    2 years at 3.5M isn't that bad of a contract, even though no team would want Mike Komisarek simply because he's been flat out awful the past 2-3 years
    dont have a seizure cwick


  13. #163
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    If Komisarik at 3.5 isn't bad than Luongo at 5 is amazing.

  14. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pfeifer View Post
    If Komisarik at 3.5 isn't bad than Luongo at 5 is amazing.
    it isn't bad because it's only 2 years and he's gone, Luongo still has 10 or whatever it is. But like I said, no one wants Komisarek unless they need to reach the cap floor (since his cap hit is more than his actual salary).
    dont have a seizure cwick


  15. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by ink View Post
    That's the point: he can't even beat out players like MacArthur and Kulemin. Yes, if he's such a valuable prospect, he should have asserted his place above them on the depth chart a few seasons ago. Why hasn't he? Because he's a borderline talent. Not just picking on him though; Burke hasn't produced much at all with his moves since becoming GM of the Leafs.
    Yup, who would have thought that 2 players, Kulemin and Mac, in their prime would be better at the moment then a kid who was barely old enough to buy a beer. Kulemin, a guy coming off a 30 goal season and is one of the best defensive players at his position. MacArthur, coming off a 62 point season. Again, what's the rush here for Kadri? Why is it now or never?
    Quote Originally Posted by Pfeifer View Post
    So Luongo won't get much in return because of his contract but the Canucks have to take on the albatross of Komisarik to get Frattin? If they take on that contract than Luongo would have to get full value in the rest of the deal cause that is not salary they would take for nothing.
    Wait wait wait a second here. Did you seriously just refer to Komisareks contract as an "albatross"? A guy with less than 2 years left at 3.5 a year is an albatross now? what world are you living in? Comparing a guy with 2 years left to a guy with a decade left is just a ridiculous notion. The Leafs also don't need to give any contracts up, if you take a look Burke has done a pretty damn good job of being cap conscious and doesn't hand out 12 year deals.

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