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  1. #496
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    I have suspected this ever since he hired Ariza. Ariza doesn't even tell the fighters what are the ingredients in the things he tells them to drink/eat.
    You don't know that for sure. None of his fighters have ever been caught and if was using steroids or any of those things, he most likely uses different products for different fighters depending on the price.

    Some of these cocktails can hit the 100k mark.

    If I remember correctly didn't Amir khan just go through vada testing and clear all tests while Peterson got caught? And wasn't khan using ariza for that fight?

    Sugar Ray Leonard whooping on Floyd Mayweather Sr.

  2. #497
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    Pac, Roach and Arum each came up with myriad reasons as to why Manny would not or could not submit to testing, with Manny himself saying "I will only take the tests the commision asks for". I tried to quickly find the video of him saying it on Youtube, but didn't. I know it's out there.

    Ariza learned his trade, working for Memo.

    To think that Pac is somehow so fresh and so clean and only JMM was doing something suspicious, is naive at best. They were both working with people who clearly know what's undetectable.

    It's that age-old dilemma of "the letter of the law vs. the spirit of the law".
    If you're using 'roids that are undetectable, that passes for "clean".

    See also:
    http://www.boxingscene.com/marquez-s...t-ariza--45617

    Memo says, "We have not employed anything illegal that is outside of they Olympic norms."

    I think those were very carefully spoken words, and I think they're just as damning in their way to Ariza, as they are to Memo. These people know what the **** they're doing. Just because it doesn't show up on a test, doesn't mean the fighter is truly clean.
    --DEUS CARITAS EST--
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  3. #498
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    Quote Originally Posted by HILLBILLYBLACK View Post
    Pac, Roach and Arum each came up with myriad reasons as to why Manny would not or could not submit to testing, with Manny himself saying "I will only take the tests the commision asks for". I tried to quickly find the video of him saying it on Youtube, but didn't. I know it's out there.

    Ariza learned his trade, working for Memo.

    To think that Pac is somehow so fresh and so clean and only JMM was doing something suspicious, is naive at best. They were both working with people who clearly know what's undetectable.

    It's that age-old dilemma of "the letter of the law vs. the spirit of the law".
    If you're using 'roids that are undetectable, that passes for "clean".

    See also:
    http://www.boxingscene.com/marquez-s...t-ariza--45617

    Memo says, "We have not employed anything illegal that is outside of they Olympic norms."

    I think those were very carefully spoken words, and I think they're just as damning in their way to Ariza, as they are to Memo. These people know what the **** they're doing. Just because it doesn't show up on a test, doesn't mean the fighter is truly clean.
    More chemicals get added to the list every year. Many nutritionist don't remove some of those minor enhancers for lack of work ethic, it's to protect themselves from being sued by a fighter
    The Autumn Wind is a Raider

  4. #499
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unbelievable650 View Post
    More chemicals get added to the list every year. Many nutritionist don't remove some of those minor enhancers for lack of work ethic, it's to protect themselves from being sued by a fighter
    Honestly, I've never associated high-end athletes and enhancers with "lack of work ethic". At that level, the enhancers actually allow a person to train HARDER. Maybe some guy just trying to fill out a polo shirt and dumping his entire paycheck into 'roid cycles is trying to get out of some harder work, but guys like Lance Armstrong etc., are actually trying to figure out ways to train at superhuman levels. I'm not saying I condone it, but people who think these guys are "taking the easy way out" because of enhancers, are kind of missing a point. Me, I take a performance enhancing drug every morning to make me perform at a higher level than what I normally would. It's called "coffee". I think we all do forms of drugs to do more than we would otherwise. So, while I agree that sports leagues have a responsibility to keep athletes safe and keep the playing field somewhat level... for me to sit at my computer and condemn people for pushing the envelope of excellence and call it "cheating" would be highly hypocritical of me. I also feel like a lot of what I've been hearing from Pac fans lately is hypocritical as well.

    I'll say this, too. If I was JMM's trainer, I would have trained him ALL OUT to be ready for ONE PERFECT PUNCH, because clearly, no one in Vegas was ever gonna give JMM the benefit of the doubt. He was either gonna have to FLATTEN Manny Pac, or he was gonna keep getting the lose or the draw. I do think partly because Pac's style lends itself to appreciation by the judges, whereas JMM's isn't as visually exciting and doesn't look like he's out there puttin' on the ritz. If JMM was bulked up and trained to prepare for that one perfect punch, I don't necessarily think his bulk is proof of 'roids. I think it could be just as much proof that JMM and his trainer took a very realistic and perhaps even cynical approach to this fight, and made absolutely sure this fight would end with Manny Pacquiao laid out like a rug.
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  5. #500
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    Quote Originally Posted by HILLBILLYBLACK View Post
    Honestly, I've never associated high-end athletes and enhancers with "lack of work ethic". At that level, the enhancers actually allow a person to train HARDER. Maybe some guy just trying to fill out a polo shirt and dumping his entire paycheck into 'roid cycles is trying to get out of some harder work, but guys like Lance Armstrong etc., are actually trying to figure out ways to train at superhuman levels. I'm not saying I condone it, but people who think these guys are "taking the easy way out" because of enhancers, are kind of missing a point. Me, I take a performance enhancing drug every morning to make me perform at a higher level than what I normally would. It's called "coffee". I think we all do forms of drugs to do more than we would otherwise. So, while I agree that sports leagues have a responsibility to keep athletes safe and keep the playing field somewhat level... for me to sit at my computer and condemn people for pushing the envelope of excellence and call it "cheating" would be highly hypocritical of me. I also feel like a lot of what I've been hearing from Pac fans lately is hypocritical as well.

    I'll say this, too. If I was JMM's trainer, I would have trained him ALL OUT to be ready for ONE PERFECT PUNCH, because clearly, no one in Vegas was ever gonna give JMM the benefit of the doubt. He was either gonna have to FLATTEN Manny Pac, or he was gonna keep getting the lose or the draw. I do think partly because Pac's style lends itself to appreciation by the judges, whereas JMM's isn't as visually exciting and doesn't look like he's out there puttin' on the ritz. If JMM was bulked up and trained to prepare for that one perfect punch, I don't necessarily think his bulk is proof of 'roids. I think it could be just as much proof that JMM and his trainer took a very realistic and perhaps even cynical approach to this fight, and made absolutely sure this fight would end with Manny Pacquiao laid out like a rug.
    I was talking about the wording of the confitioning coach. You are correct though. Marquez said Nacho told him that's the stance and set up he wanted for the KO. Feint jab and straight right. Worked perfect.

    All in all boxing commissions are most likely scared to input blood tests on every championship fight for the same reasons the NFL has been slow to input stronger testing. Many fighter will test positive and the sport loses even more credibility.
    The Autumn Wind is a Raider

  6. #501
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    Unbelievable, I got a question for ya...

    I had read that Manny wasn't so much adverse to all testing, as he was to a blood draw. He allegedly didn't want a blood draw out of his arm before a fight.

    Background on my question is that as a cancer survivor, I can't have blood drawn out of my arms. In a nutshell it's because I have lymph nodes missing from under my arms now, and the blood draw can make my arms swell.

    Being that this is the case in my own life, it does make me wonder if there is a legit concern by boxers, against blood draws right before a fight. Have you read anything on this or know anything about it personally?

    Granted, these are healthy guys, but still... my own condition has made me realize that actually a blood draw does stress the body in ways I never would have thought of previously. 'Not really sure what the alternatives would be, if it would be do a leg draw and take the chance of a blood clot on a prize fighter before a fight, or else somehow just use urine and fecal for samples or what.

    Clearly it's an issue that presents a lot of questions and challenges!
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  7. #502
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    It's about a tablespoon of blood that would be taken before the fight. Any fighter that cannot give up that much blood should not be fighting.

    The reasons don't matter anymore. The super fight never meant anything to me. I just don't want strong performance enhancers in our beloved sport
    The Autumn Wind is a Raider

  8. #503
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    Quote Originally Posted by AddiX View Post
    You don't know that for sure. None of his fighters have ever been caught and if was using steroids or any of those things, he most likely uses different products for different fighters depending on the price.

    Some of these cocktails can hit the 100k mark.

    If I remember correctly didn't Amir khan just go through vada testing and clear all tests while Peterson got caught? And wasn't khan using ariza for that fight?
    I suppose that's true. I just have always found Ariza suspicious.

  9. #504
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unbelievable650 View Post
    It's about a tablespoon of blood that would be taken before the fight. Any fighter that cannot give up that much blood should not be fighting. t
    I don't think it's about the amount of blood. Venipuncture compromises the integrity of the vein and lymph systems for the amount of time the wound is still healing.

    I don't even know if any medical personnel have addressed this, or if it's only being used by fighters who want to duck the blood test-- but I think it could actually be argued from a medical standpoint that the blood tests should happen at least a couple of weeks before a fight, but not right before going into the ring.
    --DEUS CARITAS EST--
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  10. #505
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    Quote Originally Posted by HILLBILLYBLACK View Post
    I don't think it's about the amount of blood. Venipuncture compromises the integrity of the vein and lymph systems for the amount of time the wound is still healing.

    I don't even know if any medical personnel have addressed this, or if it's only being used by fighters who want to duck the blood test-- but I think it could actually be argued from a medical standpoint that the blood tests should happen at least a couple of weeks before a fight, but not right before going into the ring.
    With the money these guys make and the damage their bodies take this isn't a big concern for them. In the end they should be fine. If anything they can just get the blood from their nose bleeds lol
    The Autumn Wind is a Raider

  11. #506
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    Pacquiao has already agreed to Olympic style drug testing.

    Before, he said he just would allow blood testing 14 days before the fight and right after the fight. Kinda suspicious as to why he changed his stance.

  12. #507
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unbelievable650 View Post
    With the money these guys make and the damage their bodies take this isn't a big concern for them. In the end they should be fine. If anything they can just get the blood from their nose bleeds lol
    I don't think you get what I'm suggesting. Maybe you do, but I'm not talking about "damage to their bodies". If they were worried about that, they'd be golfers, ha ha. I'm talking about... venipuncture could compromise their arm FOR THE FIGHT.

    IF that is the case, then it explains Manny wanting the blood draw either 14 days before, or just after the fight. And if he is being counseled that venipuncture could compromise his arm FOR THE FIGHT it would make absolute sense to do exactly what he was asking. Blood draw just after the fight seems the perfect scenario, to me.

    Or a just take a swab off their face, as you suggested.
    --DEUS CARITAS EST--
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